Day 3 of IPL's 12 Days of DOA: Leifang Breakdown

Looks like Day 3 of IPL's 12 days of DOA is here. We're getting one step closer to those double-digits. This time, DrDogg has given a breakdown of the current revision of Leifang. Leifang has traditionally been a character who relied on various holds including parries, sabakis, offensive holds, and advanced defensive holds to really bring the pain and mind games towards her opponent. One last thing to note is that she's apparently had a change to her name. In previous Dead or Alives she's been "Lei Fang". However, this time it is one word: Leifang.

It looks like she's added some new techniques to her repertoire. Jump over to IPL's website to read over DrDogg's breakdown.

Leifang is shaping up to be a formidable opponent in Dead or Alive 5. Playing against her is not going to be an easy task. She can go under high attacks and throws with ease, so you won’t be able to focus on them for a bulk of your offense. In addition, you’re going to have to know when she can use her parry during a combo string. This will delay your response after blocking one of Leifang’s combos and give her a chance to stay on the offensive. If you just stand there, she can use a throw that leads into a full combo, or a combo throw for big damage. You really have to pick and choose when and how you attack Leifang.

Source: IGN Pro League via DrDogg

 

NICE!

 

Would be nice if she had more safe attacks that led into BT to allow her to make more use of that counter, but I still don't know how useful it would be since I would probably just follow-up; unless the attack didn't have one, then maybe.

 

Can't wait for the Ayane write up.

 

I really like what they are doing to Leifang this time around! You really are going to have to think before you act against her! This game is shaping up to be one of the best if not THE BEST fighting game of this year!

 

Can't wait for the Ayane write up.

That write up was done back in March. It was called the Alpha demo.

 

The parries at the end of strings do not give her "technical" frame advantage. An astute opponent will just use a kick or any low attack to beat out the parry every time. It will force the Leifang player to stop using the parry and instead either block or go for an advanced kick counter.

-Her string up to the point of the Parry would leave her at a disadvantage. The parry would negate the frame disadvantage, giving her "technical frame advantage". In other words, the majority of attacks that mean anything in DOA are either high or mid punch attacks. The LeiFang user's opponent is forced to use either a low or a kick attack. But this astute player is forced to wait and see, while the LeiFang player could simply mixup. The burden is on the defence not the offence.

You should really give me more credit and stop assuming things. >_> I'm not basing it on the animation, I have the frame data. I mention animation in the article because it's on IGN and is geared toward a wider, more casual audience.


See my reply to CE for a frame-based description of how the parry works...

-Where did I make an assumption? I did not. In your article you described the parry's effectiveness through its animation, not through its Hit frames. Whether or not you chose this due to the competence of your readers have no effect on my response.

 

-Her string up to the point of the Parry would leave her at a disadvantage. The parry would negate the frame disadvantage, giving her "technical frame advantage". In other words, the majority of attacks that mean anything in DOA are either high or mid punch attacks. The LeiFang user's opponent is forced to use either a low or a kick attack. But this astute player is forced to wait and see, while the LeiFang player could simply mixup. The burden is on the defence not the offence.

I'm not sure why you think characters won't have good kicks or low attacks.

Most of the attacks that lead into her parry are unsafe or have a follow-up attack to provide a false sense of safety. In the case of an unsafe attack, the parry does nothing because I'm going to throw you anyway. In the case of false safety, I'm probably not going to attack because I'll respect the follow-up. And if the follow-up is linear, I'm going to step and punish the parry attempt when I see it.

Even with the safe attacks, I would still attack, I just wouldn't use a high/mid punch. If I'm playing a character that doesn't have a decent kick or low attack, then I have more problems than Leifang's parries.

It's the Leifang player that's forced to read the opponent really well if they want to get their offense going. The defender has all the tools to make Leifang a hard character to do well with.

Where did I make an assumption? I did not.

Here...

-He is basing his finding on the "animation" and not the frames. If it was going by frames, the earlier you catch the attack, the more frame advantage you would get. Her Parries worked similar in Doa4, but it was for Damage output.

This is a direct contradiction to what I said in the article. How else am I supposed to take it other than you saying, "the article is wrong, this is how it really works."

 

In the case of an unsafe attack, the parry does nothing because I'm going to throw you anyway.

-But than you would have to guess that the leifang player is just going to use a standalone parry. If not you would be eating a high counter strike.

In the case of false safety, I'm probably not going to attack because I'll respect the follow-up. And if the follow-up is linear, I'm going to step and punish the parry attempt when I see it.

-So what if this leaner attack is delayed? Now you are hit during the step's recovery frames. The counter solutions are very plausible, but not so easy in real time. This is why you will be guessing a lot more than the LeiFang player.

This is a direct contradiction to what I said in the article. How else am I supposed to take it other than you saying, "the article is wrong, this is how it really works."

-I reread the article, and I am incorrect. To that I do apologize

 

-But than you would have to guess that the leifang player is just going to use a standalone parry. If not you would be eating a high counter strike.

What are you talking about? If the attack is unsafe there is no hi counter strike, I'm just going to throw punish you. The parry wouldn't even come out because you're being throw punished.

-So what if this leaner attack is delayed? Now you are hit during the step's recovery frames. The counter solutions are very plausible, but not so easy in real time. This is why you will be guessing a lot more than the LeiFang player.

A delayed linear attack is still a linear attack. It doesn't suddenly track because you delayed it.

-I reread the article, and I am incorrect. To that I do apologize

Thank you.

 

Please tell me:
In the balance video, she starts one of her strings with what looks to be an advanced hold (based on the animation) and does NEXT TO NO damage on high counter! (much like Kasumi being laughed at for her throw)Am I wrong about the animation? I'm okay with the direction holds in general are going, and I'm aware it starts a combo, but if I'm going for an advanced hold and I'm right (and land high counter), I want to be rewarded. Punish me if I'm wrong, no issue there, but LF doesn't have many tools if she can't take advantage of your attacks - that's not her style.

@Dogg, Great series of articles btw.

 

Please tell me:
In the balance video, she starts one of her strings with what looks to be an advanced hold (based on the animation) and does NEXT TO NO damage on high counter! (much like Kasumi being laughed at for her throw)Am I wrong about the animation? I'm okay with the direction holds in general are going, and I'm aware it starts a combo, but if I'm going for an advanced hold and I'm right (and land high counter), I want to be rewarded. Punish me if I'm wrong, no issue there, but LF doesn't have many tools if she can't take advantage of your attacks - that's not her style.

@Dogg, Great series of articles btw.

I assume you're talking about this video?

Not sure which combo you're referring to. The first one starts with her command parry followed by the offensive hold from the parry. The offensive hold would do more damage if it collided with an attack.

The second combo starts with a throw that leads to a full combo, so I see no problems with the throw doing zero damage.

The third combo is her advanced hold, which does good damage given the fact it leads to a full combo. It's significantly more damage than you'd get from any other normal counter hold.

The last combo is her command parry followed by an attack from the command parry. The attack does average damage for an attack of that sort.

 

I assume you're talking about this video?
<snip>.

That's the one, third combo. Thanks very much for answering. The reward is the opportunity. Okay, fine.
I got my OMG my character does no damage crying in, and at least I can recognize an advanced counter.
The second combo leads to the full combo because it leaves the defender back turned, correct? Do those situational guarantees still apply if the defender has a good BT arsenal themselves, or is it sufficient unholdable advantage, so the defender is irrelevant?

 

The second combo leads to the full combo because it leaves the defender back turned, correct? Do those situational guarantees still apply if the defender has a good BT arsenal themselves, or is it sufficient unholdable advantage, so the defender is irrelevant?

Yes, defender is irrelevant. Although that throw is a wall throw so you can't use it in open space.

 

Thanks again. Yay <s>, so Leifang needs to read her opponent, manage to position them to take advantage of the environment and then get high counters for fair damage. Four or five successes to win vs. 2 or 3 failures to loose. Maybe I'll stick with Tina and break out the Fang when I'm feeling cocky.

 

Not sure where you're getting all of that. Most characters don't get a full combo from a throw or a counter hold. Just because Leifang's throw is a wall throw does not mean she's suddenly low tier. Also, with the right combo, I doubt you'd need more than three parries to end a round.

 

Yes, defender is irrelevant. Although that throw is a wall throw so you can't use it in open space.

If you did use it in open space, could you get anything from it, or is it still DOA4?

 

If you did use it in open space, could you get anything from it, or is it still DOA4?

It's a different throw in open space. It's that specific wall throw if her back is to a wall, otherwise in open space you get a damage throw.

 

It's a different throw in open space. It's that specific wall throw if her back is to a wall, otherwise in open space you get a damage throw.

Ok, thanks.

 

Okay thanks. I guess I was jumping the gun on that when I compared her write up to Tina and Christie's. My impression was that while she may not be exactly lacking, she would take considerably more work than others to be effective.