Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Yea before you know it I'll be on some terminally ill child's Fantasy DOA Team.
But seriously, last time I did the math I came out very sad. I like to pretend the math doesn't exist anymore.
Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate General Discussion
- Thread starter TRI Mike
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Yea before you know it I'll be on some terminally ill child's Fantasy DOA Team.
But seriously, last time I did the math I came out very sad. I like to pretend the math doesn't exist anymore.
werewolfgold
Well-Known Member
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/...we-received-more-gameplay-footage-show-floor/
This just showed up on Eventhubs recently. Confirmed that Rachel is mostly Spartan and that Leon and Bayman are even more different than before. Leon has a lot of chargeable guard breaks. When asked about changes, Shimbori mainly brought up the tag additions and power launcher and said that the other stuff may not be as noticeable.
This just showed up on Eventhubs recently. Confirmed that Rachel is mostly Spartan and that Leon and Bayman are even more different than before. Leon has a lot of chargeable guard breaks. When asked about changes, Shimbori mainly brought up the tag additions and power launcher and said that the other stuff may not be as noticeable.
shadow0x0cloud
New Member
Thanks for the replies, I guess I'll stick to 1v1 until 5u comes out.
The thing is, the lack of understanding of the stun system is dictating so much of the arguments, be it about the similarity with DOA4 (which is not entirely true), character viability and tier lists, or even creating setups that are not realisticly practical in the combo thread.
One simple example would be Zack, who I've been learning/using for some time. The general perception is that he's shit. Granted he doesnt have the guaranteed shenanigans that others may have, but I came to learn that this wasn't the intent n his design and that his so called "individuality" comes from something entirely different.
Most of his stun game and setups lead to either crumple stuns (which you cannot SE), or lift stuns which are too long to be SEed before his followup (including CB) would connect. What this means is that he eliminates a whole defense mechanism when fighting him and almost always forces you to commit to a hold attempt, which we can all agree can be extremely frustrating and dangerous. But thats how he functions. and for that I really dont think hes as crap as people think. He just functions different. Not to mention that he has good damage potential from launch, 2 CBs, long delayable strings, good mixup, and powerful frametrap setups especially from 4K which is +ve on block and enters ducking stance. Zack's no slouch.
This concept can be applied to the whole cast. When you look at your characters moves and what they can do, don't just obsess about guaranteed damage and frames on hit/block. It is also important to see what type of stun you're getting and to see what options you AND your opponent have from that particular stun.
One simple example would be Zack, who I've been learning/using for some time. The general perception is that he's shit. Granted he doesnt have the guaranteed shenanigans that others may have, but I came to learn that this wasn't the intent n his design and that his so called "individuality" comes from something entirely different.
Most of his stun game and setups lead to either crumple stuns (which you cannot SE), or lift stuns which are too long to be SEed before his followup (including CB) would connect. What this means is that he eliminates a whole defense mechanism when fighting him and almost always forces you to commit to a hold attempt, which we can all agree can be extremely frustrating and dangerous. But thats how he functions. and for that I really dont think hes as crap as people think. He just functions different. Not to mention that he has good damage potential from launch, 2 CBs, long delayable strings, good mixup, and powerful frametrap setups especially from 4K which is +ve on block and enters ducking stance. Zack's no slouch.
This concept can be applied to the whole cast. When you look at your characters moves and what they can do, don't just obsess about guaranteed damage and frames on hit/block. It is also important to see what type of stun you're getting and to see what options you AND your opponent have from that particular stun.
-Exactly. Players need to choose their stunning attacks wisely. Cant just lump everything as being a stun and expect to get the most out of it. I would like to add that crumple stuns are under valued in Doa5. Players can effectively free step to their opponents back and get at least a free jab(depending on the crumple). Also, grapplers get free guaranteed damage no matter what their opponent do. If they fall to the floor, grapplers get a free ground throw, and if they critical hold, grapplers get a free high counter throw.EMPEROR_COW said:
-I dont think anyone have ever mentioned this, but the stun system is not there just to set up juggles. Infact, it is the least effective way to do so. Counter blow launch is the most effective, and should be used to get juggles in the game. The stun system is there for players to set-up their opponent, forcing them into a 2-choice guessing game(nitaku situation). And/or limit their defensive options to manipulate your opponents reactions in your favor.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
OK I just played about six hours with several friends that are decent at the game. In my gameplay style I always tried to deal guaranteed damage via unholdable stuns and bait holds to HCT. No matter what character I'm using, be it Tina, Helena, Gen Fu or Busa (my four "mains" at the moment). The thing is that today I forced myself to focus entirely on what I know they're good at.
For Helena, I used to avoid using the PFT strategy all the time because I didn't agree with it but now, I'm constantly winning, I'm now at peace with the fact that this is how she plays, and I'm doing better with her. In Tina's case, my friends fear holding her because how strong 41236T and WR64T are, so I use that in my favor and apply Critical Burst set-ups so they lose 50% life bar anyway via air grabs. I also apply guard breaks to gain a little advantage, use her weaker throws, etc. And with Fu and Busa, I finally decided to stop playing the stun game and just launch, launch and launch since Busa's air grab and Fu's 6PPP+K don't require any height for juggling.
The result¿ I won more matches, I enjoyed the game more and I might be starting to understand what Cow and Virtuapai are saying. Now, I still think the game could use some frame data tweaks but my opinion that it's "just like DOA4 with a band-aid" is starting to change.
Virtuapai, I know you play Tina and I feel I'm LIGHT YEARS away from being remotely good with her. If you have time, give me some strats via PM or something, if you have videos of you playing her (or anyone good with her) give me the links. I can't play any of you online because of my geographical location and shitty internet speed but I want to make the most of what I do have: This forum and a few decent friends to play with.
For Helena, I used to avoid using the PFT strategy all the time because I didn't agree with it but now, I'm constantly winning, I'm now at peace with the fact that this is how she plays, and I'm doing better with her. In Tina's case, my friends fear holding her because how strong 41236T and WR64T are, so I use that in my favor and apply Critical Burst set-ups so they lose 50% life bar anyway via air grabs. I also apply guard breaks to gain a little advantage, use her weaker throws, etc. And with Fu and Busa, I finally decided to stop playing the stun game and just launch, launch and launch since Busa's air grab and Fu's 6PPP+K don't require any height for juggling.
The result¿ I won more matches, I enjoyed the game more and I might be starting to understand what Cow and Virtuapai are saying. Now, I still think the game could use some frame data tweaks but my opinion that it's "just like DOA4 with a band-aid" is starting to change.
Virtuapai, I know you play Tina and I feel I'm LIGHT YEARS away from being remotely good with her. If you have time, give me some strats via PM or something, if you have videos of you playing her (or anyone good with her) give me the links. I can't play any of you online because of my geographical location and shitty internet speed but I want to make the most of what I do have: This forum and a few decent friends to play with.
legibifou
Well-Known Member
Forest stage is a great add but... Hard to say because it's not a high quality video, but it seems there are no lighting effects from the trees to fighters, no real time trees shadows. What a pity, it could have been beautiful. Well, art direction, one more time...
-Currently my Tina is sub par. She is still stuck in Doa3.1/4.1 mode. I have to recreate my playstyle. Once it is at a level I am happy with, I will discuss it with you! There is so much I have to incorperate, and revamp.TRI Mike said:
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
I've found several tricks with her like using guard breaks to bait OHs, a few Critical Burst set-ups using unholdable stuns and launching without playing the stun game today worked fine. Still, several guys in her subforum are claiming she has solid forced tech options after a few strikes. I gotta learn to use those.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
First I do not want to take anything away from VirtuaPai he is a very competent player and I'm sure is a good teacher. Secondly tonight I just finished the biggest chunk of my Tina guide. Now I just got to list some things and finish the last big chunk of the guide oki/vortex section. For those Tina vids nag Doa_eater about them I can tell he's a good Tina. I do not have internet or else I would have vids up.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
As long as anything that has to do with my guide goes through me first than yes I have no qualms with that. I'm just gonna copy and paste it to a 5U guide actually and then just update what needs to be updated.
rximmortal
Active Member
actually the idea of winning this game is no different than in anyother fighting game:
1. Use more safe moves and frame advantage moves.
2. Use guarantee damage combos as more as possible.
3. Look at your oponents defense and ofense game and adapt as fast as possible ( the most important part)
1. Use more safe moves and frame advantage moves.
2. Use guarantee damage combos as more as possible.
3. Look at your oponents defense and ofense game and adapt as fast as possible ( the most important part)
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
DOA5 is in a good place but there's no doubt the stun threshhold (for critical and launch heights) could be shortened generally to make the game more dynamic, reads more rewarded and attacking more effective.
The overall design is fine but its too forgiving, and some of the additional tools need improving. See, sidestep and general movement, and throw breaking not an option.
The overall design is fine but its too forgiving, and some of the additional tools need improving. See, sidestep and general movement, and throw breaking not an option.
MrMoon360
Well-Known Member
Right. But it would certainly help if those tools were more readily available across all characters.
rximmortal
Active Member
every character has these moves and set ups , Some of them just have more which makes them Top tier , thats all
rximmortal
Active Member
a thing that can easy balance the game is to set a damage reduction to the combos which starts with low hit. But i am not sure if this will happened in this game.
Many of the top tier characters are top tier only cuz of the easy low hit combo starter move.
Many of the top tier characters are top tier only cuz of the easy low hit combo starter move.
RubinRoon
Member
I am not a good player, but I think her 8P force tech game is one of her core tools (besides 46P) to maintain/gain momentum and force your opponent into a guessing game. I sometimes juggle with 8P just to get another force tech going.
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