DOA: Flaws and Tournament Viability

[virtuaPAI]

Well, the majority of people that were part of Doa4 are no longer part of Team Ninja. The person that makes the final decision on Doa5 is no longer part of Team Ninja (Itagaki), so I'm not going to short credit Shimbori-san for the mistakes of his predecessors. I just want the game out so we can stop worrying about the shoulda coulda and woulda's and focus on competitive play. There is no need for us to be scared when the core of a solid fighter has been built and is currently present. Doa4 has gotten many too shook up.

 

[DrDogg]

There is no need for us to be scared when the core of a solid fighter has been built and is currently present. Doa4 has gotten many too shook up.

The E3 build has all of the core problems that DOA4 had, and in the more recent videos we've seen that one of the few advancements has been removed.

But you're right, there's no use debating things and letting Team Ninja know the game needs to be improved. If DOA5 is good, the game will have a tournament scene. If it's not, it'll be you, Manny and a handful of others going to 10-man tournaments... again.

 

[Black Dragon]

Here's what I think is happening between now and September (so pure speculation here):

I think TN's trying to split the system into two - the bog-standard triangle system (for casuals), and another system that works around it (for the competitive scene). TN's well aware of the panning DOA4 got, and at the same time know that immediately stepping away from the "standardised" attributes of DOA is only gonna push people away, especially the casuals.

DOA5 I believe is a transitionary game towards that "no holds on stun" dream most of us have. But to do that, the transition has to be as gentle as possible. We'll probly see fewer and fewer holds in stun in the next DOA sequels.

TN is stepping in the right direction, and they also know that they'll have to tread carefully.

 

[virtuaPAI]

The E3 build has all of the core problems that DOA4 had, and in the more recent videos we've seen that one of the few advancements has been removed.

But you're right, there's no use debating things and letting Team Ninja know the game needs to be improved. If DOA5 is good, the game will have a tournament scene. If it's not, it'll be you, Manny and a handful of others going to 10-man tournaments... again.

-I rather wait for the census to come in than just believe your gloom and doom prophesies. The Majority of the players here are pleased with the changes made thus far, and do not see the "Doa4 problems" having as big of an impact as you claim. This do not make them any less of a competitive player, or lack the understanding of what makes a tournament viable fighter. A Community, a Tournament scene consist of more than just yourself. Your word alone is not law or Fact, but an opinion of your experience with the given builds. It should be given consideration, not a totality of what is and what is to become. So please save your token slogan of 10 man tournaments, insert player name, and doom and gloom. The players here want nothing but the best for the game, the series, and our views and opinions should not be swept under the rug because it is not in sync with yours. We are a Community! Not We are Drdogg.

 

[daman077c]

I might as well throw my two cents in:

I think it's completely ridiculous to be talking about tournament viability at this juncture. TN has been changing and moving stuff around left, right and center and has been playing around with things. I think we should wait until AFTER GVN to start talking about whether or not it's viable or not. The game is moving in the right direction, but when we don't know what they're doing with the game until a new gameplay video comes out, or Dogg gets a new build so he can work on the guide a bit more... I just think all of these arguments and insults are well, ridiculous. *shrugs*

 

[Raansu]

The E3 build has all of the core problems that DOA4 had, and in the more recent videos we've seen that one of the few advancements has been removed.

But you're right, there's no use debating things and letting Team Ninja know the game needs to be improved. If DOA5 is good, the game will have a tournament scene. If it's not, it'll be you, Manny and a handful of others going to 10-man tournaments... again.

If we get another DoA4 I will proceed to sell my copy of DoA5 and be done with the franchise. That is promised.

 

[DrDogg]

-I rather wait for the census to come in than just believe your gloom and doom prophesies. The Majority of the players here are pleased with the changes made thus far, and do not see the "Doa4 problems" having as big of an impact as you claim. This do not make them any less of a competitive player, or lack the understanding of what makes a tournament viable fighter. A Community, a Tournament scene consist of more than just yourself. Your word alone is not law or Fact, but an opinion of your experience with the given builds. It should be given consideration, not a totality of what is and what is to become. So please save your token slogan of 10 man tournaments, insert player name, and doom and gloom. The players here want nothing but the best for the game, the series, and our views and opinions should not be swept under the rug because it is not in sync with yours. We are a Community! Not We are Drdogg.

I could say the same thing to you. It seems to me that most of the people here share a similar opinion with me, while only a handful agree with you. And you're right, we are a community, not we are virtuapai.

I've also stated multiple times that we don't know what's going on with the game, positive or negative. But we have a lot of evidence on both sides which keeps both camps in constant debate. I have not said for certain that the game will not be tournament-worthy, you're just more optimistic than I am. But you were pleased with the Alpha demo, so clearly we have different levels of satisfaction here. No reason I can't express my opinion just like you're expressing yours.

 

[DriftSlave]

I might as well throw my two cents in:

I think it's completely ridiculous to be talking about tournament viability at this juncture. TN has been changing and moving stuff around left, right and center and has been playing around with things. I think we should wait until AFTER GVN to start talking about whether or not it's viable or not. The game is moving in the right direction, but when we don't know what they're doing with the game until a new gameplay video comes out, or Dogg gets a new build so he can work on the guide a bit more... I just think all of these arguments and insults are well, ridiculous. *shrugs*

Ok let me tell you a possible scenario that can happen and what will happen.

DOA5 Sells really well, even better then Tekken Tag2 in the first few months, however the game it's self is not tournament Viable to tournament players, you know what happens when all the casuals stop playing the game? The Game dies and DOA4 history repeats itself. Even if it outsells Tekken, People are still going to be playing Tekken...Period....and no one will care about DOA except for the pure die-hard who still play DOA4 to this day will play DOA5 because not much has changed.

I hope that does not happen but..it's very likely if things don't change for the better...

 

[virtuaPAI]

I could say the same thing to you. It seems to me that most of the people here share a similar opinion with me, while only a handful agree with you. And you're right, we are a community, not we are virtuapai.

-You could, but It wouldn't be true. I'm not here thinking my opinion mean more than any other competitive player fighting for a better game. Unlike you, I am not constantly spouting how someone would get a ten man tournament because their opinion differs.

But you were pleased with the Alpha demo, so clearly we have different levels of satisfaction here. No reason I can't express my opinion just like you're expressing yours.

-The Vast Majority of your Doa experience is with Doa4, It is however not mine. I for one will not have the same view as yours knowing what Doa is capable of, and have experienced it for myself. So how can you quantify my satisfaction, when you did not experience what I have? You Cannot, and that is the whole problem with your arguments towards others. We are all expressing different facets of experience, and when you do not agree, you want to throw out the "Have fun with your 10 man tournament" or other choice words. That is more than expressing ones opinion, Thats being condescending.

 

[Rikuto]

At the absolute bare minimum I expect this is be better than a Naruto game.

And even some of those were fun in short spurts.

 

[virtuaPAI]

At the absolute bare minimum I expect this is be better than a Naruto game.

And even some of those were fun in short spurts.

-Thats not even funny. I would quit on the spot.

 

[Rikuto]

There is something to be said for eye candy fighters. I mean I'm not really in the market for one... but i could never completely hate it.

 

[virtuaPAI]

There is something to be said for eye candy fighters. I mean I'm not really in the market for one... but i could never completely hate it.

-I guess it depends on the candy, cause Doa4 was eye candy but I end up getting a bitter middle. Like one of those tootsie pops, you think you will get to the delicious center, but it was nothing but shit lol.

 

[Rikuto]

-I guess it depends on the candy, cause Doa4 was eye candy but I end up getting a bitter middle.

The problem is that the expectations of its predecessors exceeded that which was offered in 4. If it had always been a horrendously terrible game with over-the-top eye candy and shit, I probably wouldn't have felt much negative energy towards the game. You take those kinds of things at their face value and that makes them easy to enjoy for what they are.

3.1 fucking taunted us though. That's what makes it so hard to deal with.

 

[daman077c]

3.1 fucking taunted us though. That's what makes it so hard to deal with.

Exactly. I remember playing 4 and then going back to play 3.1 (having skipped it, going from 2U to 4) and wishing things in 4 were like that. DOA (and other fighters, for that matter) have always had eye candy, DOA just has it more than most.

 

[UnD34D]

-You could, but It wouldn't be true. I'm not here thinking my opinion mean more than any other competitive player fighting for a better game. Unlike you, I am not constantly spouting how someone would get a ten man tournament because their opinion differs.


-The Vast Majority of your Doa experience is with Doa4, It is however not mine. I for one will not have the same view as yours knowing what Doa is capable of, and have experienced it for myself. So how can you quantify my satisfaction, when you did not experience what I have? You Cannot, and that is the whole problem with your arguments towards others. We are all expressing different facets of experience, and when you do not agree, you want to throw out the "Have fun with your 10 man tournament" or other choice words. That is more than expressing ones opinion, Thats being condescending.

I have plenty of experience outside of DOA4 and I agree with Dr. Dogg. I really feel like you guys are thinking I'm riding his dick here soon but its fucking true. Whether because of the gameplay or shitty marketing, DOA has never touted big tournaments. DOA2 was an alright game, pretty good actually, but its market was mainly online players who refuse to go offline, 3.1, barely anyone played it despite it being one of the most fun fighting games ever made, and then 4 was just garbage but still really appealed to the online crowd. I mean dude, for DOA5 to save the series, its going to have to be solid as fuck. 3.1 solid in my opinion. I think the game looks like its taking steps in the right direction, it looks more solid than 4, but honestly, it still looks a LOT like DOA4. I'm only speculating at this point from the videos and we'll all have to see when the game ACTUALLY comes out, but if you asked me right now, what they've done just isn't enough. This might as well be DOA 4.2 or Ultimate DOA 4 from what I can see.

 

[virtuaPAI]

-UnD34D the stuff that you mention, I am not arguing about. I totally agree with mostly everything you said. I simply do not See the current build of Doa5 as being Doa4.2 or what have you. Everything I have seen is screaming Doa3.1 to me. The Side stepping, natural combos, normal hit launchers, wake up options, nerfed holds, wall game, frame advantage, back turned advantage, un-holdable stun situations, spacing, guard breaks and frame traps, character individuality and the list goes on. These things make the game far from Doa4, and more 3.1. Doa4 had absolutely nothing..well stuns and holds.

 

[Skilletor]

-You could, but It wouldn't be true. I'm not here thinking my opinion mean more than any other competitive player fighting for a better game. Unlike you, I am not constantly spouting how someone would get a ten man tournament because their opinion differs.


-The Vast Majority of your Doa experience is with Doa4, It is however not mine. I for one will not have the same view as yours knowing what Doa is capable of, and have experienced it for myself. So how can you quantify my satisfaction, when you did not experience what I have? You Cannot, and that is the whole problem with your arguments towards others. We are all expressing different facets of experience, and when you do not agree, you want to throw out the "Have fun with your 10 man tournament" or other choice words. That is more than expressing ones opinion, Thats being condescending.

It's not condescension. It's stating facts. DoA has never had a healthy offline competitive scene.

 

[virtuaPAI]

It's not condescension. It's stating facts. DoA has never had a healthy offline competitive scene.

-How is telling someone to "have fun with your 10 man tournies" stating fact for having a differing of opinions? The argument was never based around Doa's tournament turnouts, I was there to witness it all.

 

[Skilletor]

Because if those opinions are in the final game, they will lead to 10 man turnouts.