DOA4 Bayman vs. DOA5 Bayman

[ErickBello]

Except for the fact that he's "hot" now...
Some people who are wondering to main Bayman, would like to be more informed about his changes and combos, now.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

I am "some people". Bayman is one of several characters that I'm looking at for potential mains. Any information would be appreciated.

 

[Rikuto]

I'll get into this after I've had time with him post-release. Sufficed to say, he has changed dramatically in every single build I've played, and I don't want to shove my foot in my mouth trying to explain what is what until I have all of the facts.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

i was thinking about the ceiling stun(for lack of a better name) and how Bayman could utilize it.does Bayman still have his (charged)? its the only way i can think of him reaching the ceiling.

 

[Rikuto]

The notation is now , but the charged version is like 45 frames.

Good luck landing the attack pretty much ever.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

The notation is now , but the charged version is like 45 frames.

Good luck landing the attack pretty much ever.

I got it to work on DOA4 I'm pretty sure I can find away to land in DOA5 with all those new unholdable stuns

 

[MajesticBlue]

I have a question. If Bayman's 3K gives a sit down on crouching opponents, would he get a sit down on any tech crouch? Like if you use it to beat out a slow crush move (counter hit status might override) or low hold? Maybe it can even be used when somebody wiffs a move that leaves them in crouching, so you could punish and get the sit down on normal hit.

Yeah, the property of the move could have already changed. I just wanna know the theory side of things

 

[DR2K]

Based on the last build the only thing DOA4 Bayman had over DOA5 Bayman was a beret. Drastically altered character, his wall throw is so dirty.

 

[Rikuto]

I got it to work on DOA4 I'm pretty sure I can find away to land in DOA5 with all those new unholdable stuns

There are no unholdable stuns that will last for 45 frames I am sorry to say. It's usually around 20-30. The ones you do have you will have to go for a launch as fast as humanly possible, because everything besides the CB can be slow escaped.

Sit down stuns and limbo will always give you enough time for a 236p though.

 

[Lobo]

How does his new tank roll work. Is it still 3P+K. I've seen a bunch of new options from it like his scissors catch grab, and another grab where he climbs up your body, but I have no idea what the properties of the moves are.

Im looking forward to messing around with that, because I managed to use it somewhat in DOA4, even when it was almost useless.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

How does his new tank roll work. Is it still 3P+K. I've seen a bunch of new options from it like his scissors catch grab, and another grab where he climbs up your body, but I have no idea what the properties of the moves are.

Im looking forward to messing around with that, because I managed to use it somewhat in DOA4, even when it was almost useless.

the only grab I've seen is the one where he grabs your leg knocking you off balance and a ground grab.the scissors grab has been there since at least 4 if your referring to what I think you are and I havnt seen a grab out of roll where he climbs on top of the opponent.

I used to joke that the only use for the forward roll in DOA4 was to give your face more momentum to hit their fist lol.the side roll is great to troll Hayabusa players.ended up directly behind one guy when spammed ninpo of course being Bayman I turned him into a human pretzel and for the rest of the match for some strange reason he refused to teleport again...hehehe

 

[Rikuto]

Bayman has two separate tank rolls, front and side.

His side tank roll (2/8P+K) is an evasive high crush that can be used to transition into his scissor legs OH versus standing opponents. It's a great way to fuck with overly aggressive, linear opponents. If it catches an opponent during a strike it will become high-counter damage. It does have fairly high recovery however, so if you whiff it a high-counter throw punishment is almost certain.

The best application of the side roll is to simply do it during disadvantage, and if you can confirm your opponent has started an attack, activate the scissor legs portion and take that sweet damage. Otherwise its safer to simply let the roll cancel.

His front tank roll can be used stand alone with 3P+K, or it can be used immediately after 3K by using 3K3P+K. The drawback from using the 3k variant is that it can be interrupted on guard 100% of the time, making it only truly intimidating during a stun or stand-alone.

From his forward tank roll you have a few options. P (relatively safe mid that launches on CH), 66P+K (high punch that barely gives any advantage at all on hit, but is +9 on block), or H+P.

Currently H+P is the mystery option, but is probably the weakest and riskiest against a standing opponent as it does very little overall damage. Originally it was an offensive hold which was honestly preferable, but it has been changed so that it is now a regular throw (as of GVN, at least). In certain builds it has given enough advantage to also guarantee a ground throw follow up. This may not be the case anymore.

The dual function of the H+P option is that it can also be used to activate a unique ground throw that does significantly more damage than Bayman's other ground throws, and also leaves him at a safe distance from wakeup kicks unlike the rest of his ground throw arsenal. If you manage to use 3K3P+KH+P at the end of a juggle you can guarantee this, but it requires a generous amount of launch height to pull off without them being able to tech.

The test of its usefulness will ultimately fall to our own creativity in the months to come, as it SEEMS like you have to sacrifice quite a bit of juggle potential to even make it work correctly. There may well be other applications however, so I look forward to hitting the lab.

An example of one such theory comes from the stomach crumple stun which eventually makes a person fall over. If they fall over completely, a ground throw is guaranteed. The only way to avoid this fate is to use a hold.

Theory crafting would suggest that midway through a stomach crumple you could activate the front roll into H+P. If they held mid/high, you would throw them out of that getting a small amount of damage and a free ground throw as well. If they let themselves hit the ground, it would catch them as they hit the floor and give you the extra damaging ground throw.

... but this is all in theory, of course.... and the properties on these moves keep fricken changing. lol

 

[Lobo]

Wow, that was a really in-depth response. Couldn't have asked for more. Hopefully the final build will keep all the good changes to it. It already sounds dramatically more useful than the DOA4 variant.

the only grab I've seen is the one where he grabs your leg knocking you off balance and a ground grab.the scissors grab has been there since at least 4 if your referring to what I think you are and I havnt seen a grab out of roll where he climbs on top of the opponent.

I used to joke that the only use for the forward roll in DOA4 was to give your face more momentum to hit their fist lol.the side roll is great to troll Hayabusa players.ended up directly behind one guy when spammed ninpo of course being Bayman I turned him into a human pretzel and for the rest of the match for some strange reason he refused to teleport again...hehehe

Yea, I'm pretty sure the grab I saw was just his H+P follow-up to his forward tank roll.

I liked to sometimes just side tank roll at neutral and do nothing but stand back up. Most of the time, they would try to duck the scissors grab, and I would eat them with a low grab. Forward roll was even more useless, but I did land 3P+K > 9PP a few times after a far knockdown. A lot of times they would try to low wake-up kick the roll and eat the 9P.

 

[ILYA✰]

Except for the fact that he's "hot" now...

i just realized how hot he looks now!! omg D haha

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

The dual function of the H+P option is that it can also be used to activate a unique ground throw that does significantly more damage than Bayman's other ground throws, and also leaves him at a safe distance from wakeup kicks unlike the rest of his ground throw arsenal. If you manage to use 3K3P+KH+P at the end of a juggle you can guarantee this, but it requires a generous amount of launch height to pull off without them being able to tech.

I like this .. Alot ! Genious!
but like you said, it does require a bit of height and 6PPK also creates and untechable state guaranteeing a ground 2H+P for considerably more damage (plus it can be done at a slightly lower height) ..

If you have a a better launch you can go PKK for another untechable guaranteeing 2H+P and even more damage.

but the 3K3P+KH+P looks just too fucking awesome .. I can see this as a stylish match ender

 

[UncleKitchener]

The dual function of the H+P option is that it can also be used to activate a unique ground throw that does significantly more damage than Bayman's other ground throws, and also leaves him at a safe distance from wakeup kicks unlike the rest of his ground throw arsenal. If you manage to use 3K3P+KH+P at the end of a juggle you can guarantee this, but it requires a generous amount of launch height to pull off without them being able to tech.

I personally would've preferred if this was an OH. On block, if you roll against someone with bad reaction, chances are that they'll just hit you out of your throw, but if it's an OH, then I think it becomes a 50/50 for that guy and he has to make a choice of 'should I stand up or should I duck?'. Or at least that's what I gathered from the minute and a half of my DOA5 Bayman experience. Besides, the roll is not fast. People can probably throw you, same way the punish Tina's roll.

 

[Rikuto]

I would have preferred it that way myself, but someone apparently felt that having a highly interruptable OH that does like 35-40 damage was too overpowered.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

As long as they don't fuck with Bayman's untechable situations from air juggles then I'll be happy.

I love his "SHUT UP!" kick .. lol (4K into guaranteed ground throw .. lol )...

 

[Rikuto]

As long as they don't fuck with Bayman's untechable situations from air juggles then I'll be happy.

Should I say it?


Ah, but I'm not supposed to know anything. So I guess, no. I shouldn't.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Should I say it?


Ah, but I'm not supposed to know anything. So I guess, no. I shouldn't.

They did didn't they ...
I'm guessing he got the same treatment as bass?
Let me guess ... Tina too? >__>
So just when we thought grapplers finally got their rightful place, the japs went and fucked them up again ?

Am I dead on ? or am I over thinking ?

Either way I'm pissed ...

My next vid is gonna be on Bayman (hopefully up tonight or tomorrow) and I grew quite fond of him (despite him not being LEON .. but lets not go there now. Its not the topic at hand) ..

Its annoying enough that they butchered Leifang's moveset and they fucked with Ayane's 4K force-tech ..and they wouldnt just consider giving hayate his fucking teleport from forward dash stance just to make it a bit more useful ..

Who the fuck makes these stupid decisions ?!

Why would they take so many steps back after E3 ?
ok they saw burst as overpowered and they nerfed it .. FINE ...
why fuck with Holds ? when that received the best feedback from everyone in the US AND in Europe!
and why fuck with tools the characters have ?! Instead, Logic would be to try and make the rest strong enough to be able to cope .. not fuck everyone with a ban hammer..

Ver.0.75 (or gamescom-GVN build) still has its fair share of guaranteed setups and it still feels great, particularly with how useful sidestepping has become. but seriously .. in a matter of a month they go and fuck things again ?
What the hell is the point of all the feed back we've done in the US and Europe then ?

I dunno man, I know they fucked with the game... I still don't know to what extent.
Hopefully by some miracle if the damage is too severe they would consider patch after the game has matured a bit .. (maybe 3-6 months down the line ? .. im not an advocate of early patches unless its some bullshit that basicly breaks the game like an easy ass infinite or some major fucked up glitch).

I do hope this game plays out well because I am really fond of the series.. but I do not wish to repeat the dark ages of DOA4 again ..

otherwise I'll say fuck them, buy a dev kit and just play the E3 build with my closed circle of friends...

/end of rant.

anyway all will be revealed over the weekend ..

You might as well share what you know .. what are they gonna do? shoot you ? .. you're on their fucking website for fucks sake .. lol