DOA4 - Defensive techniques

SkatanMilla

Member
Slow Escape
Your main defense should consist of a solid slow escape, a.k.a struggling for those of you from other games. If you end up in a stun, you can hold down guard and mash directional, punch and kick inputs to get out if it faster.
Dead or alive 4 also has a hidden 'stun meter' that can't be seen, but what it does is that it accumulates all the slow escaping you've been doing so that it becomes easier over the course of the match to slow escape fast, making it possible to get out of deep stuns faster than you could have without it. So my recommendation, from a personal standpoint, is that you buffer slow escapes at every point possible to build that meter, this also applies to when you get hit into walls.

Low Hold
The low hold is the best defensive hold in the game, it recovers faster than any of the other holds and it ducks under highs, which tend to be a characters fastest attack and also their regular throws.
So what the low hold is used for, aside from actually holding low attacks, is that if you get put into a stun you can quickly go into a low hold to get out of it much faster than you would have if you had just done nothing. There's also a good chance if they whiffed something above you, you will be able to punish them for it. Pretty much the only thing that will punish this technique is a low throw, since mid launchers tend to be too slow to get the job done.


Option Select Hold
This is a technique used to deal with characters that use multiple hit moves to force a launch mixup. There are several of them, Hayate 4KK, Hayabusa 6KK, Helena 9K and Zack 6PP/6KK are a few of the ones I can remember from the top of my head.
The basic principle of this technique is that there is no delay in between how fast you are able to input several holds in between each other as long as the stun is renewed in between.

As an example let's use Helenas' mixup between 4K (high) and 9K (mid,mid).
Initially she is mixing it up between launching you with a high kick and a mid kick, however, to get access to that mid kick launcher she has to use one which has a built in followup. Since it is possible to cancel hitstun into a hold you are able to input a high hold and then buffer a mid kick hold afterwards. This way if she tried to launch you with the high she will get held high, but if she used 9K you will get hit out of your high hold, and your buffered mid kick hold will come out to catch the second kick.

This forces your opponent to start baiting you with stun extenders so that they can hold your buffered hold rather than working on a direct launch mixup. If they are punishing your first hold with throws that means you are allowed to use slow escape instead to get out of the stun since they are looking for holds at that point.


Buffered throw escape
This is a very basic concept to safeguard against people that use 5f throws. Whenever you have put yourself in a situation where they can punish you with a throw you should be buffering a throw yourself near the end of your recovery. This way if they did go for the 5f you will have broken it, and if they didn't you will be able to guard just like normal. It is important to also use this when you are punishable by slower throws like 7f and up, because players have a tendency to choke and go for the 5f sometimes, this let's you escape those slipups.


Fuzzy Guard
Fuzzy guarding means that you input 33-G when you are -6 and less to avoid any 5/7f throws they might be going for. If they did go for any of those throws you will be able to punish them with a launcher or a throw of your own afterwards. There are a few different ways to punish someone for using a fuzzy guard, either you can use a slow throw like your 12f throw or your offensive hold, or you can use a low attack.
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
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Great stuff Skatan!

I just wanted to add a comment to your Slow Escape section:

SkatanMilla said:
it becomes easier over the course of the match to slow escape fast, making it possible to get out of deep stuns faster than you could have without it.

This does not apply to all stuns. There have always been stuns that struggling doesn't speed up, most typically being any stun that takes you off the ground like a lift stun (Hayate's :3::P: on Counter Hit).
 

SkatanMilla

Member
I don't want this kind of information to just die away, so I decided to post it here for everyone to see.
Hopefully it will still be relevant for any future iterations of the series.
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
I don't want this kind of information to just die away, so I decided to post it here for everyone to see.
Hopefully it will still be relevant for any future iterations of the series.

A lot of the reason Virtuapai wanted to restore his old articles on this site, as you can't find them anywhere else anymore :(.
 

Scott

Member
Usually when I try to slow escape I end up throwing out a hold on accident or a high attack. Is it possible to hold free guard, then input punches and kicks to escape? Do you have to use the directional pad at all?
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Usually when I try to slow escape I end up throwing out a hold on accident or a high attack. Is it possible to hold free guard, then input punches and kicks to escape? Do you have to use the directional pad at all?

Yes, you can hold your block button and slow escape. That is how I learned, for me I can react to virutally anything when I hold block and do it. I do know of other players that are good with it, that press buttons and slow escape, depending on the character :P+K:. So with that, I believe it is to each is own.

The reason you are throwing out accidental holds is becuase you are slow escaping then pressing your block button. Or you may be tapping on your block button while you're slow escaping. You want to hold down your block button first then slow escape (this backfires with advance hold characters, especially with Lei Fang). Those types of characters will hold or parry coming out of their stun if you're slow escaping fast enough, be carfeul with them.

If want to input buttons while you slow escape that's fine and so is blocking. Choose which one you want to do, neither is wrong, but doing both is not a good idea. As you will get random stuff to come out trying to do both, the way you were asking in your post.

You can use the D-Pad or one of the Analogs to slow escape, I have heard that the D-pad is the best tool for it, but again to each is own with that. All 3 do the samething, it's whatever you are comfortable with.
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
I just rotate the d-pad when I slow escape. I don't like pressing the buttons as I somehow always accidentally jab or do a defensive hold.
 

SkatanMilla

Member
Online even if you hold guard when you slow escape while using buttons, random holds will come out for some reason.
This does not happen offline, at least not for me. I don't know for sure why it happens online, but, I suppose it drops inputs or something when you're inputting too many buttons.

I should add that there are stuns where if a character has two launchers, one is a bit faster, the other can be slow escaped. You can slowescape and look for the fast launcher, if you confirm that they did it you can throw the hold out, otherwise just keep slow escaping into block/mid crush. Of course, this won't work on every launch mixup since some launchers are too subtle or too fast to react, then you'll just have to guess as usual.

I have forgotten a lot of stuff that I discovered before CGS season 2, reason being that it was impossible to implement them on the screens used there. And after that I kind of dropped the game since there weren't any other tournaments for me to attend. But I remember the playstyle I worked towards was one that didn't rely at all on guessing.
 

Scott

Member
But I remember the playstyle I worked towards was one that didn't rely at all on guessing.

How did that work into offense? Did you attack on the single principal of reaction to your opponent? How did you deal with tech situations (Helena BKO nonsense)?
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Well, I think we all "worked towards" that playstyle, I'm not sure if anyone ever really achieved it completely. Hell maybe Carl did.

I know I never could, so instead I simply embraced heavy guessing and maximized the damage potential in my options and minimized my opponents.
 

SkatanMilla

Member
How did that work into offense? Did you attack on the single principal of reaction to your opponent? How did you deal with tech situations (Helena BKO nonsense)?

I tried to play the stun game as little as possible, instead I'd rely more on whiffpunishment and counter poking and baiting people without really taking risks myself. When I got people into a stun I wouldn't try to launch them, instead I just watched what they would do since very few people just slow escape into block. With Kokoro I could do things like put someone in a stun, then sidestep into 88P to hit them in the back even if they did do a counter hold or if they struggled out into a mid crush.

My Kasumi for example consisted mostly of 3K, 2K and 3P because they work great for keepout, coupled with her fast movement and her backflip she can really lame it out against most characters. And because throws work the way they do, if people try to get in range and hold one of her pokes she can just punish it with a throw from where she's standing without having to dash in. With Leifang I would use a very similar playstyle except using max range 46P (safe) and 3K, with the occasional 1k/2K/2P to keep people from advancing too fast.

To make this kind of playstyle work you have to have really good movement though so that you can get in and out just as you please. Online that kind of movement doesn't work at all it just ends with you getting HCH because you can'tgo to block fast enough. Which is why I payed for Glyx to come over to Sweden and play with me for a week straight so that I could put my theories to application.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I think my biggest problem is that the commandos really have jack for whiff punishment and they have crap movement so it always comes down to the stun game :/
 

SkatanMilla

Member
I think KBD and cd cancels can make any character move fast enough to be honest, I remember using this well even with Tina, and her movement is very clunky.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Even if you think Bayman moves fast enough (i dont) whiff punishment is still quite the issue... You sorta have to anchor him onto a person, exchange and delay strings until you get a stun, and then play that into a launcher or an OH.

It's a lot of defensive guessing just to FINALLY get into the offensive side of things.
 

Gehaktbal

Well-Known Member
Which is why I payed for Glyx to come over to Sweden and play with me for a week straight so that I could put my theories to application.

That week was a awesome week. good times.. good times.. I really kind of miss you online though. hope to see you again when doa5 comes and ''hope'' for tournaments.
 
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