DOA5 Demo: Consolidated Feedback

DrDogg

Well-Known Member
More additions to the OP:

- There are features in the demo that require the Right Analog Stick. Some arcade sticks do not have a Right Analog Stick, making these features difficult or impossible to use. Please provide other ways to access these features.

- Some other fighting games require the use of specific buttons for various features (text chat in Soul Calibur 5 is done by pressing L1). Some arcade stick owners only have 6-button sticks, or remove the last two buttons from their 8-button sticks. This makes it difficult/impossible to use features like this. Please allow us to change the button config of options like this.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
I like how you can get on SC case even though their game is at majors -_-'

SC2 was great game and was a tournament worth game, SC3/4 Decline was maybe due to direct console releases. SC5 however had tons of beta testing and at least they had got their community involved in the game to make it what it is today....you know a game that is at EVO, MLG, etc. Because SC decided to use meter now didn't take anything away from it(Aside from GI spam wars) but it did help it appeal to a broader audience.

DOA doesn't have meter, but the guy who has the same name as me has a point....Power Blows are highly cinematic attacks(it may not cost meter but are still one of the same), and that does draw parallels to Ultra's and Critical Edge's as it is what will draw people to the game. Power blows do work off the mechanics of the game...and it seems that they did put work into it....however unlike the previously mentioned...in a Combo heavy game...you would think at least the ninja's would be able to combo into them...even after a danger zone explosion or have some kind of damage scaling if you do. These are the kind of things


In a game like DOA it doesn't need a quote on quote "comeback mechanic" however what does DOA have that I can't get else where? When you can tell me something positive about DOA then you can talk down to SC until you can....I wouldn't do it.

Yeah, but it's only a place holder for the next Tekken. Like the series has always been. Will it take a back seat to TTT2, most likely.

That's not really the point i was trying to make. I'm just stating the difference between a comeback mechanic and a general one. Powerblow does not warrant meter usuage in its current state. It can be blocked, it can be thrown, it can be held, and it puts the user in a hi counter state so it's even susceptible to other attacks. You put yourself at a huge risk when you do it. Where's the risk when you do a safe ex move?

Not having a brainless comeback mechanic is a huge start to offering what a lot of fighter do not have. Or are you saying you need a comeback mechanic is what a fighter should offer you? DOA initself offers the whole package, it's fun and entertaining.
 

DriftSlave

Active Member
VF5 doesnt have one, KOF to a extent doesnt have one....my Point is that they could do alot more with Power blows...if your going to have something like that...make it epic...make it have HYPE. you can't do it if you never see it. Not being able to combo into is...is a problem...maybe you can with certain characters that are not in the demo...or we havent found one yet...still it would make the game have that much more depth with its current system mechanics having that as a option.

also two small points...the risk of doing a safe EX move? you waste meter and possibly momentum...I play Cammy in AE I should know...also SCV will still be around after Tag2 hits because they have two different communities....two namco games at EVO..gasp at the thought~
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
VF5 doesnt have one, KOF to a extent doesnt have one....my Point is that they could do alot more with Power blows...if your going to have something like that...make it epic...make it have HYPE. you can't do it if you never see it. Not being able to combo into is...is a problem...maybe you can with certain characters that are not in the demo...or we havent found one yet...still it would make the game have that much more depth with its current system mechanics having that as a option.

also two small points...the risk of doing a safe EX move? you waste meter and possibly momentum...I play Cammy in AE I should know...also SCV will still be around after Tag2 hits because they have two different communities....two namco games at EVO..gasp at the thought~

KOF13 does have one(it's just not brain dead), I see players using that DM mechanic which allows for 1 hit kills. Power blows are rarely going to happen at high level because of how much risk is involved. If you do land it it's because your opponent made a mistake, or you put them in a setup where it was harder to counter. That will bring "hype" moments.

You'll gain more meter for losing in SCV, so it could be advantagous to lose. I don't want that type of mechanic for DOA5. I don't want an X-Facotr, ultras, rage, super, DM, etc. . . DOA has it's own style and flair, and it does not need to hop on the me too bandwagon.

Historically Soul Calibur and Tekken have always shared a lot of players and it's not uncommon for them to shift inbetween games. SCV may keep some players, but be prepared to see dropped numbers once TTT2 comes out.
 

DriftSlave

Active Member
-_- KOFXIII comeback would be HD or hyper drive mode...and you have to be on your shit to even go into HD mode and successfully kill a character(which is rare to 100% as most of the time you need 5 stock to do so and to be in the corner....), DM or Desperation Move is referring to the actual Super....and they have long stop being actual Desperation moves....since what 03' with leader moves >_>' please know your shit before talking about it like you do.


in SCV the 1 stock of meter you get is for you being 1 round away from losing....if your 1 round away from losing...your not in a good position, how is it advantageous to lose :confused:'

again....X-factor...you dont know what your talking about...sure Wesker can blow you up by himself in XF lv3 we know this...same with Dark Phoenix(-5 stock at that) but a character like Morrigan has a lower chance in blowing up your entire team....you still have to work for your wins in Marvel...its not brain dead like you think it is....knowing when to X-factor is important to the game. finding out the problematic character on a players team and killing it is apart of it same with saving it to when you think you need it is another. your implying these comeback mechanics are braindead but actually require some skill(more so in KOF) to use effectively.

Wolf is VF5 comeback mechanic >_>' Burning hammer doing 60%....nah that isn't dumb.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
Please stop talking about SC5. You have no idea how the game works at high levels. >_>

The game does reward you for losing with meter gain. I'm sorry, it's not a difficult concept.

"in SCV the 1 stock of meter you get is for you being 1 round away from losing....if your 1 round away from losing...your not in a good position, how is it advantageous to lose"

You're not in a good position if you have more meter?

"Wolf is VF5 comeback mechanic >_>' Burning hammer doing 60%....nah that isn't dumb."

How is a breakable throw a comeback mechanic?

"-_- KOFXIII comeback would be HD or hyper drive mode...and you have to be on your shit to even go into HD mode and successfully kill a character(which is rare to 100% as most of the time you need 5 stock to do so and to be in the corner....), DM or Desperation Move is referring to the actual Super....and they have long stop being actual Desperation moves....since what 03' with leader moves >_>' please know your shit before talking about it like you do."

Mechanic that leads to high damage and potentially turn the match around. Do you understand what a comeback mechanic is?

Playing marvel is like playing dice, and if you think Morrigan can't take down teams with Xfactor than you aren't paying attention (look up ChrisG and Dieminion). X-factor is the worst and most brain dead comeback mechanic implemented in any game, ever. Players do lose to Xfactor all the time. It rewards you for losing, it gives you obscene damage and speed, it lets you punish anything, extend whatever you want, and rewards you for losing per character.

Point is, keep this garbage out of DOA5. DOA as a whole already caters to casuals with the visuals and the cramp free inputs. We don't need the game getting more random, the whole point is to make it less. Just mash mid-hold and pretend like you're coming back.
 

virtuaPAI

I must say Thank You all!!!
Staff member
Administrator
Point is, keep this garbage out of DOA5. DOA as a whole already caters to casuals with the visuals and the cramp free inputs. We don't need the game getting more random, the whole point is to make it less. Just mash mid-hold and pretend like you're coming back.
-I do agree with your point overall. Doa right now need to focus more on solid play, and not on anymore gimmicks and/or comeback mechanics. The fact that Team Ninja is using the term "Fighting Entertainment" is damaging enough. LMAO, Im going to use your mid hold comment as my new signature.
 

Chris Harris

Well-Known Member
It sucks for me to have to get involved in this. But just to kill the whole argument of the comeback mechanic.

DoA's system as a WHOLE is a comeback mechanic. The entire concept behind countering out of 90% of attacks is the come back factor which I think people generally don't like about the game but the counter system is what makes DoA "unique".

At the SC5 comment. If you are in a match and lose the first 2 rounds quick you are still at quite the disadvantage especially if you were out played. At most you will get 1.1 bars which is poop cause chances are you will still lose either the 3rd round or 4th round. It is a very shitty come back mechanic if that. It truly only helps at really low levels of play where people get nailed by random supers a lot.

KoF. . .HD combos are hard and top players drop them like none other. Def not a comeback mechanic.

Let's stick to DoA talk now please especially those of us who have very little knowledge of other games.

MvC3. . . .it's Marvel lol we love it :)
 

x Sypher x

Active Member
I just had a thought. I have heard from a few that the stun system needs tweaking. I was thinking that the majority of all stuns should be unholdable with the exception of say maybe 2 types, and those would be:

(For lack of better terms)
1. Stuns by jabs (on CH or NH)
2. Stuns by low attacks that don't cause a sitdown (on CH or NH)
(The reason why I chose these two is because these types of stuns are the least used during threshold since the majority of stuns used are by mid attacks.)

And then any other type of stun AND ANYTHING on HCH should be unholdable PERIOD. Of course you have to consider frame advantage, recovery, SEing, etc. But this way the attacker doesn't have too many options and offense isn't too powerful. If holds were removed from stun completely then the attacker could just hit you with whatever the hell he wants until he decides to launch, and fighting in water would be SUPER dangerous cuz it's AAALL about the stun game there. Not that it's a bad thing, punishment should be granted when successfully stunning your opponent, but if my suggestion here were implemented then it would give you a sense of what NOT to do or what situation to avoid in the instance of any of those 2 situations occurring. That's not to say they will never occur, but it gives both players something to think about and layout their strategies accordingly.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
-I do agree with your point overall. Doa right now need to focus more on solid play, and not on anymore gimmicks and/or comeback mechanics. The fact that Team Ninja is using the term "Fighting Entertainment" is damaging enough. LMAO, Im going to use your mid hold comment as my new signature.

It's a step up from fighting-porn, lol.
 

grap3fruitman

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
DoA's system as a WHOLE is a comeback mechanic. The entire concept behind countering out of 90% of attacks is the come back factor which I think people generally don't like about the game but the counter system is what makes DoA "unique".
What makes DOA unique is its ease of pick-up, fluid movesets and animations, and large multi-tiered levels and not "counters." Counters just make the game universally disliked, it's "unique" in that sense, yes, but that's not what sells people on DOA, it's what pushes them away. The first few items I mentioned are what make people pick up DOA in the first place, those are its unique items and its strengths.
 

DriftSlave

Active Member
@ DR2K again...you missed the point and sarcasm all at the same time -_-'

It's ironic as you say DOA offers cramp free inputs....whut? you serious? 7-8 button strings are cramp free? you serious? don't get me started on the retarded-ness which is Ryu's Izuna hold command >_> you guys dont even have that as a smiley....hold dat.

Point is....holds in stuns need to go, also...i think losing via debris falling ontop of you and you eating a combo because of it....needs to go....I killed the CPU that way to day...it attempted a hold..then a box feel on her head then she ate a Raijin.....stupid.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
@ DR2K again...you missed the point and sarcasm all at the same time -_-'

It's ironic as you say DOA offers cramp free inputs....whut? you serious? 7-8 button strings are cramp free? you serious? don't get me started on the retarded-ness which is Ryu's Izuna hold command >_> you guys dont even have that as a smiley....hold dat.

Point is....holds in stuns need to go, also...i think losing via debris falling ontop of you and you eating a combo because of it....needs to go....I killed the CPU that way to day...it attempted a hold..then a box feel on her head then she ate a Raijin.....stupid.

Cramp free in the sense that there aren't many complicated motions, most players have access to a characters full arsenal without having to hit training mode just to work on timing. Total opposite of say a character like Viper in SFIV and Patsuka in SCV, where you have to get past a totally different barrier to get to the character.

Holds in stun need to go, especially since stuns are harder to get. Although I have a feeling that some stuns can not be held out of. Can't confirm since I'm only playing the AI.
 

DriftSlave

Active Member
but Viper and Setsuka are that character archtype in being high execution characters(im sure it wasn't intended but...)...there is at least 1 or 2 of these characters now and days( like a grappler for example)...DOA got them too, isnt that what Koroko or whever her name was suppose to be? a just frame/execution like character? :confused:

Idk but i hate holds in stuns...I think we all can agree on this BS...it would make critical stuns special....A thought just ran though my mind...they should change the hold system from the ground up anyways....>_> it wouldn't be fair to Akira....AKA mr. Elbows and Shoulders, or in other words the two types of strikes that few characters have answers for besides headbutts(i know right?) holds shouldnt grab elbows and shoulders....Akira wouldn't know what to do if they were countered....he would be like WTF? what else do I got? Stuns? Holds in stuns....>_> damn it.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
but Viper and Setsuka are that character archtype in being high execution characters(im sure it wasn't intended but...)...there is at least 1 or 2 of these characters now and days( like a grappler for example)...DOA got them too, isnt that what Koroko or whever her name was suppose to be? a just frame/execution like character? :confused:

Idk but i hate holds in stuns...I think we all can agree on this BS...it would make critical stuns special....A thought just ran though my mind...they should change the hold system from the ground up anyways....>_> it wouldn't be fair to Akira....AKA mr. Elbows and Shoulders, or in other words the two types of strikes that few characters have answers for besides headbutts(i know right?) holds shouldnt grab elbows and shoulders....Akira wouldn't know what to do if they were countered....he would be like WTF? what else do I got? Stuns? Holds in stuns....>_> damn it.

Kokoro? Hmm, not sure. Not as much. Grapplers worked harder in 4 because they sucked.

Then you have a system that requires links/just frames, which DOA in general doesn't have.
 

matsu

Member
I do not have the demo to make a real judgement but here are my thoughts on what's a problem in DOA.

-Guardbreak: you should not be able to hold out from this stun.It should give a slight frame advantage to the attacker forcing the defender to make a choice.Guardbreak seems better in DOA5 because they only occur with charged move if am right, allowing the defender to hold thanks to knowledge of strings.

-Pushback.
i think doa needs pusback ,adding a layer to whiff punishment.

-Dash:
I'd like to see some faster dash in DOA,forward dash being slightly faster.I think about ryu or ken in SFthird strike, their dash allow to go in and out of range.This could work well with added pusback, i think about soulcaliburV(it's a shame they nerfed it though ...)

-Throw:
i don't understand why this is the most viable option in term of guaranteed punishment behind almost every strings.7 startup frame and unbreakable!?This seems to be a wrestling game.
In VF throw are as fast if i remember well but you need to be really close to land it.And when it's guaranteed the opponent stiil has the opportunity to buffer a break.If you don't know which move is punishable with a throw you'll probably get hit,rewarding knowledge and read.

If the range needed to throw is reduced and the dash buffed we should be able to read a throw soon enough or apply mindgame with throw/middle.
For example.guard break ,dash,throw or middle?it think he will throw.then i strike or use a ducking strike as 4K of hayabusa or 66H to go through the middle.
Or I don't want to take too much risk :guard, throw break.
This would need a decent window to break on reaction or the ability to buffer it from guard.
Throw is supposed to be a tool to open guard or the entire mechanic of grappler and i don't find the grappler fun enough atm.

-Holds :
Hold and stuns are the identity of DOA and at the same the most problematic mechanic.
Holds are spammable,do too much damage and are pure yomi(in stun).
The startup window should be around 4 as Master said ,the active window should be lower and the recovery should be higher.I would even nerf it more ,almost no damgae for it.I take the risk to attack with three different strings cancelled to get a high launcher and the opponent can do as much damages by spamming it before an attack or during stun!?This is a defensive tool.

Stun is as a juggle and hold a way to stop it without cost and does damages.Total bullshit for me.
Rikuto said that you should not be able to hold out from stun.I agree on that but that is too excessive for me even though this is a good idea.
The damage done by a hold should be recoverable and fast actually.Encouraging to take back the offensive to really benefit the hold.By holding you already minimize damages,as said above this is a DEFENSIVE TOOL.
Do this to normal holds and keep experts hold as they are considering thier limitations.I don't know if they are as "expert" as they're supposed to be though...

To prevent that cheapness they added excessive high damage on high counter throws.Balancing a cheap tool with a cheap tool:eek:.
I am not against keeping it for counter throw out of stun though.As Jann leee's 236H or gen fu's 66H.

Just frame hold is good rewarding good reads on guarded strings.

And if i hit middle for a high hold it should stun rewarding a good choice.

-wake up kicks:
Simply get rid of high one and stun.Make them easier to see or remove the invicibily on it.slight advantage if it hits and disadvantage if guarded.

stuns:i still have to think about it.

-sidesteps:
can't argue on that,because i don't have the demo,heard they are too shy,and i don't know how many moves track right now

-String cancel: I love it:) perfect for mixups.

Conclusion DOA needs at least one drastic change and it will be repercuted on each other mechanic.They'd better not be shy or this will be DOA4 all over again in september.
 
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