I believe we already had this discussion.
VF doesn't have holds in stun... true, but irrelevant. Most stuns in DOA are deep enough that you can get the stun from the first hit of a string, cancel, and mix up with something else. It's not as if the stun system is dependent on delayable strings... it isn't.
- Even then having SOME delayable strings is pretty much like having ALL delayable strings, same mind game and same ruleset apply. In fact, some characters have alot more delayable strings than others (and with longer delay lengths than others). Just because Akira's moveset is blocky does not mean the same rules should apply to everyone.
This is so far from the truth.... no, it's not the same mindgame at all.
First of all, If I've got only a handful of good strings with a delayed junction that means people are going to recognize the opener I use to put them in that mindgame, and that makes them patient for the duration of that string. If I try to spam it out, obviously i'm going to get my ass countered, so it has good effect in small bursts but isn't overly abusable.
Secondly, strings that are delayable in most other fighting games usually have some kind of major drawback or they risk being a truly stupid move. Usually its a fairly slow startup, or an unsafe finish, or severe linearity. This system of checks and balances actually hurts DOA, because it affects every single string... thus they made almost every single string super bad in this game, giving major disadvantage to almost every move. It hurts the very fabric of each characters underlying toolset.
Thirdly, if it's limited to a smaller number of strings that I recognize than I, as the defender, can intelligently make a defensive decision about the inherent mixup if it truly is a beastly string. If every string in the game is delayable, however, I'm just flipping a coin every fucking time and maybe i'll get hit and maybe I won't. There is barely any intelligent thinking involved with it.
Drdogg would ask me... why are you attacking at disadvantage? "Because you're trying to play smart, and I'm trying to play DOA."
- You guys complain about 50/50 scenarios when VF is all about 50/50s. When your attack puts you at -VE frames ON HIT, the next move is a risk anyway. when it puts you on +VE frames, if the amount of +VE is not enough for a follow up which I have to say is the case >70% of the time, the next move is ALSO a risk as your opponent may react with a hold/parry, sabaki, sidestep, or simply guard and punish your following negative move if your move does not launch or put the opponent in a inescapable stun. how is this any different from allowing holding in stun ?! If you dumb it down to whats actually happening, its pretty much the same thing.
On the other hand, one simple example to this is any situation that puts Sarah in flamingo stance. One of the simplest ways to punish it is going with a crouching P as it would come out most of the time even before her mid kicks, which is why Sarah has the low parry tool putting the opponent in a long enough stun to guarantee a launcher. Choosing to attack or not is a 50/50. (this applies to all flamingo stance entries except for maybe from max range as that puts you at +7 in flamingo and out of crouching P range) . Delayable strings in this stance put her in a "fake" safer state and allows her to keep her attack flow.
If I want to avoid damage in VF, the game is actually pretty generous in the number of ways it will let me get around it... provided I have the technical skill to pull these methods off.
As for Sarah, her startups into flamingo have a certain range, a certain speed, and a certain linearity. A good player will be doing his best to make sure he is never trapped inside of that stance by avoiding the most likely openers into that situation. You can't compare that to delayable strings in DOA, because thats like saying you want to avoid every single move 100% of the time -- it just can't be done.
Because I can avoid those specific openers if I know what to look for, you have a direct comparison here where smart play keeps you out of having to make the more dangerous guess against Sarah's stance, but no matter what you do in DOA you are always going to have to block SOMETHING eventually.... and during that something, you will be guessing because every little something has a delay.
That's why we keep telling you people, too much forced guessing IS BAD. Guessing is something you should have to do if you have fucked up at one of the metagames and are forced to do so. It's a pressure reward, not something to be given to every goddamn string in the game. sheesh
and then throw punish it. So it's not so much a mix-up game any more and teching up without wake-up becomes a much more viable option since moves are now able to go over wake-up kicks more often.
