DOA5: New Gameplay Trailers - Ayane, Hayate, & Hitomi

[R4712-VR88]

Talk about super generic soundtrack. Good job, Tecmo Sound Team.

Well we've only heard acouple of tracks so far so I wouldn't call it completely generic yet. I will say it sounds like the music this time is based off the stage and not a characters theme. Also the quality and the way the music plays may change has development goes on. I listened to the Tekken 5 demo alot back in the day and when the full game released some of the music changed. There's an old DOA4 gameplay video that had a small intro for Hayabusa's theme that became removed once the full game hit.

Sorry for double post, but this bothers me: Ayane got a free bounce after Ayane knocked her into the generator, Hitomi got blown away and was bounced, so Ayane got another juggle. That's just a bit too much.

From what I gather it's basically a new version of the wall bounce from DOA4 where this time you can only get when knocked into something that triggers the stage changing. I wonder though if you can tech off the ground and not be bounced.

 

[UncleKitchener]

It's no different than pressuring someone on the wall in 3.1. I see this as a good thing since you can still counter out of stuns. Or would you prefer it to stay the same as doa4 where nothing was advantageous?

I also find your post hilarious considering you're a Tekken player...A game where juggles can take you from mid stage to a wall and continue a juggle into the wall for more than 50% health.

Same goes for VF. But this is different where after a wall bounce, it's not like a wall stun or splat where you get another try or a low wall stun where you can hell sweep a bunch of times.

This sets up opportunities where after a hard wall splat, they're bounced where you can just juggle them again and knock them back into the adjacent reactor or other environmental hazard because of the position change. That could be hell of a lot more damage than just an average 80-90 damage wall combo. This is like an invisible force just picking up for another beating before you get to recover.

Can you even tech roll out of bounces? My guess is no. Please do tell if you can because I don't play DOA4 and haven't seen anyone actually tech out of that.

 

[Allan Paris]

No, you can't tech a wall bounce in DOA 4. You can tech off the wall if you slam into it. Why tech a bounce off the wall if you could in DOA 4 anyways? Holding is way more rewarding in that game.

 

[Rikuto]

Same goes for VF. But this is different where after a wall bounce, it's not like a wall stun or splat where you get another try or a low wall stun where you can hell sweep a bunch of times.

This sets up opportunities where after a hard wall splat, they're bounced where you can just juggle them again and knock them back into the adjacent reactor or other environmental hazard because of the position change. That could be hell of a lot more damage than just an average 80-90 damage wall combo. This is like an invisible force just picking up for another beating before you get to recover.

Can you even tech roll out of bounces? My guess is no. Please do tell if you can because I don't play DOA4 and haven't seen anyone actually tech out of that.

umm... let's just say, the "average" wall combo out of jann lee in 3.1 was about.... double that. So this kind of damage really isn't making me flinch, especially since its out of dangerzones that appear to be one time use per match. If they start appearing more frequently and are all over the place there may be a cause for concern though.

Wall bounces were not techabable, and that blast-off kind of bounce wasn't really a DOA 4 thing. The type that were in DOA 4 were basically glorified launchers like kasumi's 6k on CH... and no, you couldn't tech them either. if it hit, you were going for a ride.

All I see from this thing is a strategic asset on the map that can be used once and that's it.

 

[DrDogg]

No game is 100% free from guessing and doa3.1 had the same execution window and it didn't stop it from still being a solid fighting game. I'm not saying I disagree, but thats far from the issue with holds, especially in doa4. The issue was the lack of restrictions to the holds such as true combos and other unholdable setups like from being unable to hold off the wall bounce in 3.1 to being able to hold immediately afterwards in DoA4 which seems to have been addressed in these recent videos. In the Akira video wall bounce lifts their feet off the ground making them unable to hold, and the explosions from the wall slams clearly seem to be unholdable as well.

We already know you can hold after a guard break. Let's say the average GB gives you +5 and Hitomi's jab is i10. While you're at +5, the opponent can counter in 0 frames, so the only thing you're negating with the frame adv is the opponent's ability to attack. However, in past DOA games, the opponent would probably want to counter anyway, so in actuality the situation hasn't changed... despite the frame advantage.

Everyone keeps saying that this is how it was in 3.1 and things were fine, but on paper I'm not seeing it. I want situations where I have frame advantage and that means I get to attack before you can do ANYTHING. You know... like how frame advantage works in pretty much every other competitive fighter.

 

[UncleKitchener]

^^@Dogg: What should the least and most amount of frame advantage be in terms of frames? I was thinking of +11 for the very least. I'm pretty sure the fastest jab in the game is around 11 or 12 frames. But this also be advantageous for bigger characters like Leon and Bass. Leon's an exception since he has the fastest jab in his class, but I'm really not sure about the other two heavies.

Speaking of frame data, is your wiki getting any updates in the future, Wah?

umm... let's just say, the "average" wall combo out of jann lee in 3.1 was about.... double that. So this kind of damage really isn't making me flinch, especially since its out of dangerzones that appear to be one time use per match. If they start appearing more frequently and are all over the place there may be a cause for concern though.

Wall bounces were not techabable, and that blast-off kind of bounce wasn't really a DOA 4 thing. The type that were in DOA 4 were basically glorified launchers like kasumi's 6k on CH... and no, you couldn't tech them either. if it hit, you were going for a ride.

All I see from this thing is a strategic asset on the map that can be used once and that's it.

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing from 3.1, but the most damage I've done from a wall bounce was in the region of 120-130, but this was with Bass and Leon.

I'm pretty sure someone would find a way to make this generator business happen twice. Jann Lee, Helena, Gen Fu and the british kid are primary candidates.

 

[Raansu]

^^@Dogg: What should the least and most amount of frame advantage be in terms of frames? I was thinking of +11 for the very least. I'm pretty sure the fastest jab in the game is around 11 or 12 frames. But this also be advantageous for bigger characters like Leon and Bass. Leon's an exception since he has the fastest jab in his class, but I'm really not sure about the other two heavies.

Speaking of frame data, is your wiki getting any updates in the future, Wah?



I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing from 3.1, but the most damage I've done from a wall bounce was in the region of 120-130, but this was with Bass and Leon.

I'm pretty sure someone would find a way to make this generator business happen twice. Jann Lee, Helena, Gen Fu and the british kid are primary candidates.

Theres only 2 generators on the stage and they are both right next to each other. The generators blast you in the opposite direction. It's not going to happen.

 

[x Sypher x]

I'm pretty sure the fastest jab in the game is around 11 or 12 frames.

Actually I think the fastest jab is about 7 frames or something, if I'm not mistaken, and it belongs to Kasumi lol.

 

[Raansu]

Actually I think the fastest jab is about 7 frames or something, if I'm not mistaken, and it belongs to Kasumi lol.

Its 9 frames.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Speaking of frame data, is your wiki getting any updates in the future, Wah?

I have more typed up on various spreadsheets that I've been meaning to put up on the wiki but it's sort of a pain to get up and done. I also sort of broke the frame data template and have yet to fix it...

 

[x Sypher x]

Its 9 frames.

Oh ok thanks for the correction. I must have mixed it with something else.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Speaking of frame data, is your wiki getting any updates in the future, Wah?

Why ask me? Any member can edit the wiki, none do though.

 

[DrDogg]

^^@Dogg: What should the least and most amount of frame advantage be in terms of frames? I was thinking of +11 for the very least. I'm pretty sure the fastest jab in the game is around 11 or 12 frames. But this also be advantageous for bigger characters like Leon and Bass. Leon's an exception since he has the fastest jab in his class, but I'm really not sure about the other two heavies.

In most cases, frame advantage should not guarantee an attack (there are exceptions). You just need enough frame advantage to beat the opponent's fastest attack with your fastest attack. Depending on spacing, that could be as little as +1.

Unfortunately, counters in DOA execute in 0 frames and that throws the whole formula off. If that remains the same, suddenly you need enough frame advantage to land a guaranteed hit. In this situation it's not even really frame advantage in a sense, it's just an attack that gives you a guaranteed followup.

With the way DOA currently works, even the sidestepping could be ruined by 0-frame counters. Let's say you sidestep an attack that leaves the opponent at -8 on whiff. You attack with a 9-frame jab, but the opponent can still counter because of the 0-frame execution.

 

[Raansu]

Oh ok thanks for the correction. I must have mixed it with something else.

throws are 7 frames in doad

 

[Aion]

In most cases, frame advantage should not guarantee an attack (there are exceptions). You just need enough frame advantage to beat the opponent's fastest attack with your fastest attack. Depending on spacing, that could be as little as +1.

Unfortunately, counters in DOA execute in 0 frames and that throws the whole formula off. If that remains the same, suddenly you need enough frame advantage to land a guaranteed hit. In this situation it's not even really frame advantage in a sense, it's just an attack that gives you a guaranteed followup.

With the way DOA currently works, even the sidestepping could be ruined by 0-frame counters. Let's say you sidestep an attack that leaves the opponent at -8 on whiff. You attack with a 9-frame jab, but the opponent can still counter because of the 0-frame execution.

Then I think that after such situations (i.e guard crushes, whiffs), there should be a small window in which you aren't allowed to counter; I'd rather that than have holds with start-up.

 

[x Sypher x]

throws are 7 frames in doad

No wonder why they're so fucking fast. Does that include low grabs as well? Cuz I've been in a situation where my opponent does a low grab TWICE, one whiffs and next one connects because I either hold low or crouch. It's fucking annoying. I mean who the fuck tries to grab twice? It's usually something only lower ranks/scrubs do, never a high level player (obviously). I haven't tested it out with everyone but so far I can tell Kokoro can spam the shit out of a low grab.

 

[Raansu]

No wonder why they're so fucking fast. Does that include low grabs as well? Cuz I've been in a situation where my opponent does a low grab TWICE, one whiffs and next one connects because I either hold low or crouch. It's fucking annoying. I mean who the fuck tries to grab twice? It's usually something only lower ranks/scrubs do, never a high level player (obviously). I haven't tested it out with everyone but so far I can tell Kokoro can spam the shit out of a low grab.

They actually slowed them down in DoAD. Standard throws were traditionally 5 frames as well as low throws and I believe low throws stayed at 5 frames in DoAD as well.

 

[grap3fruitman]

No wonder why they're so fucking fast. Does that include low grabs as well? Cuz I've been in a situation where my opponent does a low grab TWICE, one whiffs and next one connects because I either hold low or crouch. It's fucking annoying. I mean who the fuck tries to grab twice? It's usually something only lower ranks/scrubs do, never a high level player (obviously). I haven't tested it out with everyone but so far I can tell Kokoro can spam the shit out of a low grab.

Kasumi's is 3/2/25 in DOA2/3 and in DOA4/Dimensions it's 5/2/22. Sure, they come out quick but look at the recovery frames, they're huge! There's an inherit risk that you'll get punished with an attack for throwing. Mr. Wah always stresses the fact that the reason that throws were faster, and should be faster again, is so that you could punish a counter hold on reaction.

 

[x Sypher x]

Mr. Wah always stresses the fact that the reason that throws were faster, and should be faster again, is so that you could punish a counter hold on reaction.

You mean visually right? Like if you see it you should be able to punish on (trained) reaction before you opponent has a chance to recover?

 

[MASTER]

double low throw is a option select strat sypher. Its usually used on sit down stuns and deeper stuns since the recovery is relatively fast and the opponent is in stun or in hold animation. Main reason a second low throw is actually done is because they actually saw you hold while they recovered from the first throw and since both the low hold and low throw have similar frames, it makes it easier to punish you this way if a hold does indeed come out. If it doesn't usually the attacker will recognize that and will attack since in some stuns the attacker is still left at advantage.

MASTER