DOA6 Hayate

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Twilight Town
Main Character
PSN ID
TakedaZX
I have no hope left for this game but nostalgia got to me and pulled me back to this forum. So I've been playing.

This is gonna be a last ditch effort at dreaming for a new Hayate to put the others to rest on solidness as well as how fun he is to play.

General Focus

Hayate has always been known as somewhat of an aggressive spacer. He's not about getting in your face and constantly dabbling into the stun game. He's about spacing you out and making you make a mistake then using that advantage to rush you to the wall and make you pay.

I want to keep that focus but add new aspects to keep him fresh and even give him a couple of game changers as well. Also if he's going to have a high damage throw it shouldn't be near impossible to complete even as a veteran player so we'll discuss Raijin as well.

New Moves and Propeties

7P - Critical Burst will be moved to P+K and P+K moved to 3P+K. 7P will now be a transition into back-turned. Hayate is a master of the Mugen Tenshin Style. That means Tenji-mon sect and Hajin-mon sect. Thus his ability to use both 7K flash kicks.

He should build a back turned game, no necessarily as effective as Ayane's but at least one to be feared.

He will have no back roll (6[6]) but he will have a back dash (66). I won't ask for a BT CB tho. I still want him to be somewhat lacking and areas like that.

9P4/9P6P+K - To tell the truth though I was hoping for him to give up 9PP to Ein a long time ago as Ein could definitely thrive off of a wall friendly 2 in 1 like 9PP and more over the 9P was originally Ein and Hitomi's.

In turn this new 9P would be an elbow that transitions into the wind dash and also back turned.

13i or 14i would be fine and safe as it would still be high but there would be no 2 in 1. Just stun game.

BT 6PP - This would be an mid elbow that keeps him back turned but has a bit of forward momentum. Stun doesn't have to be deep. For him to have a move to keep him back turned while trying to mix up.

The P follow up will be a knockdown. The punch will be a palm like 236p or pppp.

PK4 - Another transition into BT. Helps his stun game a bit.

1K/BT 2K and BT 2H+K - Sweep will be moved to give him his 1K back as a stand alone move from BT regular forward stance. It will still transition into wind dash but perhaps the stun can be weak enough that all he gets is a jab on free cancel full slow escape around the wall like Hitomi and he'll retain 1KP and 1KK from his PP2K series. No launcher and this will also still make it an unsafe mix up over all so he can't just throw out moves to continue the stun game though he will have options.

BT 2H+K will remain as is but actually track. There's no reason for it not to as an unsafe sweep that knockdown in stun.

3PP - New animation on the 3P though it's crush frames don't have to be any more than they are now (nearly non existent).

With the new animation hopefully he can step forward with the second punch with his back let for a more aggresive looking overhead strike. Also 3P should be a minimum of -2 on NH. I understand it's a CH tool with a follow up... even if that means the stun gets shafted and made weaker.

4P is a great lift stun for mid punch and will now grant even better stun game options so this works out... plus I have other ideas in the works.

3K - This requires a mechanical change to the whole game but it can work in many characters favor. I want this to sit down the way it did in DOA4. It's like a deep stun that gives him time to dash in and mix up. He already gets all of his best launchers off of this move (4k6k, 8p, 33k, and 9K as well as 6K if it's late in the threshold and 4K will break threshold) so it simply adds an extra layer.

The mechanics of the DOA4 sit down stun work like a lift stun. The first segment of the stun cannot be held out of so since he must return to neutral anyway because it's a stand alone poke, he cannot get any guaranteed follow ups.

Towards the end where the opponent is allowed to hold they enter somewhat of a squatting state that allows highs to hit. This is very helpful because it pushes them farther away and as a character that thrives off of the wall it'll help him push closer.

4H+K - 6K will be moved to this input but will be changed to a Kasumi/Ryu style 4K that can be transitioned into the wind dash. It's just more ninja like than his step kick styled launcher.

6K/PP6K - New move Knee attack that functions like Kasumi 6K. Not a deep stun but will allow him to continue stun game. +15 on fastest escape so he can't get 3K guaranteed to continue the stun game.

This move will spin low and consistently crush highs early in the move. Tracking but not safe.

PPPP will be given to Ein though the last hit may be taken away.

P+K - Should be a knockdown at -2.

1K - Just to say it, this crush will be scrapped. It's nice for him but I'd rather them make 6K a consistent crush for highs.

6PP charge and PP6PP charge - PP6P charge will be lost but given to the last hit of both of these strings to cover the move and give him possible pressure since both follow ups are unsafe.

(214P)PPP and (214P)K - change animation to be a faster flip. 214P will not be an attack but more of a stance. If he does 214PP it will bound opponents but recover slow to only give 8P8K or 6PK as a free cancel. ON crouching opponents it will sit down and offer a 33K. 214PP will require a commitment to get the guaranteed launch and follow up though the last hit will still be relatable.

214PK will take the place of 214K. +2 on block but only a knockdown. Only 2P should be semi guaranteed for oki if they don't tech.

2/8P+K4 - Risky but will send him into back turned and recover faster than free cancelling it.

6H+KK - Similar to Ayane's H+K but it actually will crush lows earlier and land like his 9KKK. This is mostly for shits and giggles but does give him another way into back turned as well.

3H+K - In combos this move should bounce higher.

WIND dash

Wind Dash 4P - This move will be a spinning elbow that tracks and stuns lightly on NH and Crumples in stun or on CH. The idea is to give him a tracking move that comes from the stance and also continues his stun game.

Another mechanic shared with another move will be that it can cancel the start up of the wind dash early allowing him to actually use it after 1k and 4P (Though it will be slow escapable still from 1K but only on fastest or close to it)

Wind Dash K (Animation Cancel and Charge) - So the idea with this is to make it a bit faster so it can function how it used to in DOA4. A quick 2 in 1 like that knocks down gets the pressure off.

If he holds the input down he will start a visible charge with wind circling around his body and once it reaches full he can release it giving him launch 2 in 1 launch properties. On guard it will become a -8 guard break that gives him space in the open but gives character specific punishes to certain characters and at the wall guaranteed punishes for everyone whether it be throw or BT combos.

In turn the charge would only be good as a mix up launcher when you know for sure the player is going to reaction hold which I'll get to later.

Wind Dash P+K - Speed up to 32 frames. Nothing has to change on the launcher itself.

New Transitions

4H+K6P+K - Great for follow ups as it will launch directly into wind dash K for stun to launch and full charged wind dash K for highest launch though he may have better options than going directly into wind dash k... hopefully.

9KK6P+K - Probably the slowest transition of the bunch to keep him from being able to launch into a combo. The focus of this should be to give him another option in Raijin juggles.

Throws and Holds

Advanced Mid Punch Hold - Changed to DOA4 33T though. He changes places with the opponent by rolling around them then strikes them in the back, does a backspin kick like Ryu 4K and ends with a flash kick. Instead of rolling after the flash kick he should teleport into a slide backwards.

Raijin - I'm having much less problems inputting this combo throw nowadays but it's still extremely difficult for NO reason. I vote changing the final input to a full circle so long as he still doesn't do more damage than the Izuna drop.

High Crushes (Non Crouching State)

8P
4P
3P
6K
BT 4K

Mid Crushes
214P (Should be in air faster and stay in the air longer)
6P+K (Ending frames of stance only. Pressing a move will surrender those frames.
9K(KK)
33KK

Low Crushes (Only Low)
3H+K
9K (can keep it's shitty hitbox... Only because it's Hayate and he has other options.
H+KK
6H+KK

Yea... stuff.
 
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Jaguar360

Well-Known Member
Main Character
Ryu Hayabusa
I like what DOA5U did to Hayate a lot. Brought back some good missing elements from previous games (DOA3 44K and sort of the DOA4/DOAD Wind Dash) while keeping a lot of the good changes from DOA5.

I like pretty everything you suggested, especially the changes to Raijin's input, the new PP6K/6K suggestion and the speeding up of wind dash, which doesn't feel that useful in DOA5U/LR. DOA5LR Hayate feels great already, but these relatively small changes to a lot of moves would make him feel much better imo.
 
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TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Twilight Town
Main Character
PSN ID
TakedaZX
I like what DOA5U did to Hayate a lot. Brought back some good missing elements from previous games (DOA3 44K and sort of the DOA4/DOAD Wind Dash) while keeping a lot of the good changes from DOA5.

I like pretty everything you suggested, especially the changes to Raijin's input, the new PP6K/6K suggestion and the speeding up of wind dash, which doesn't feel that useful in DOA5U/LR. DOA5LR Hayate feels great already, but these relatively small changes to a lot of moves would make him feel much better imo.
Si my ninja. He's very solid and you can't even argue that he's not in his most solid + balanced state he's been in... ever.

Tenryuga said it best, in DOA3 they did great in the game and Hayate... a little too great. It's like they didnt know what to do with all that frame advantage so they just put it everywhere xD.

Frankly the idea for PP6PP charge was his though he didn't care for being credited on it. It opened th idea for PP6K because I frankly don't see a reason for two PP strings to go into his final charge which we both agreed on. As Ein players as well it was a way to give him a more solid string set since Ein is VERY lacking in offensive options and opening opponents up... So giving him a way into a mid that deep stuns and a wall splat 236p helps.

Anyway. In the long run my hopes are for Hayate to feel more like a true Mugen Tenshin [Master]. As th new leader of his clan it only makes sense for him to master both sides of the clan.

Also most of the combo changes and additions are in hopes of a better combo system in DOA6... And in fact most of the changes are in hopes of a new game so thats why I dubbed it DOA6 Hayate.

But just to speak on the wind dash... only Wind Dash 4P and Wind Dash K will skip animation frames because it's necessity for the 4P to be viable and while wind dash K is already somewhat viable... we the players didn't want this.

We wanted 4H+K back as a safe poke. I wanted my wind dash 2 in 1 kick launcher as a mix up for good damage. We all got shafted.

This way... we all get what we want and he becomes a better character.

Anywho. I'm adding more later on.

Check out my Ryu topic too.
 
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XxNoriakixX

Active Member
Main Character
Ryu Hayabusa
Just give him some good lows. Just like Ryu you can make a pizza before you need to press the hold button. Some less predictable strings would be good too. You can't always space especially with your back against a wall, so being held because he has no variety plus bad lows make it even worse. I will never understand why people put him higher than mid tier
 
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