GamesTM: Dead Or Alive 5 “the next step” for fighting games, says Team Ninja

[grap3fruitman]

http://www.gamestm.co.uk/discuss/dead-or-alive-5-the-next-step-for-fighting-games-says-team-ninja/

Dead Or Alive 5 “the next step” for fighting games, says Team Ninja
28 Mar 2012

Team Ninja boss Yosuke Hayashi reveals the thinking behind Dead Or Alive’s makeover and explains how the fusion of beat-’em-up mechanics and cinematic action will further the genre.

Its chaotic brawls might be some way removed from the precision of Virtua Fighter and the technicality of BlazBlue but even so, Dead Or Alive’s rebirth as a ‘fighting entertainment’ game rather than a straight beat-’em-up marks an interesting turn for both the genre and the studio at the wheel. Speaking to games™ earlier this month, Team Ninja’s Yosuke Hayashi explained that players shouldn’t be put off by this new sub-genre – in fact, he’s confident that it’s the future of fighters. “With this new concept that we’re calling ‘fighting entertainment’, we have some which to us is the next step in the progression of fighting games,” he tells us. “People who like fighting games… they’ll know the series but they’ll be able to see how fighting games can become more interactive than they are right now. And for people that are new to fighting games coming into the series here, they’ll get a much greater experience than they would have with previous Dead Or Alive games.”
What is ‘fighting entertainment’, you ask? It’s basically a term that attempts to explain Dead Or Alive 5’s fusion of traditional beat-’em-up mechanics with huge cinematic set pieces and even QTEs – those that love fighters for the purity and the science might just find that the explosions and environmental hazards of Team Ninja leave them cold though taken on its own merits rather than comparing it directly to existing fighters, DOA’s reinvention certainly has entertainment value on its side. After all, what’s not to like about seeing a ninja smacking somebody off a huge building, only to be belted into an exploding car when he reaches the bottom? That’s right, nothing. Because it’s awesome. Yes, it’s daft but last time we checked, Dead Or Alive wasn’t exactly a franchise that took itself particularly seriously.

Even so, the new term is still managing to strike fear into the hearts of the fighting hardcore and there are parallels to be drawn with professional wrestling giant WWE’s branding of its matches as ‘sports entertaiment’, a move to differentiate its staged bouts from those of a proper sport. But while it might introduce a degree of scripting with its pre-planned event sequences, don’t take that as a sign that DOA5 is being dumbed down as a fighter. “Just because we call it fighting entertainment doesn’t mean that we’re taking away the fighting game elements,” explains Hayashi, evidently taking at least a little umbrage with our line of questioning. “Those elements are still there – we’re taking feedback from expert players and balancing the core fighting engine as usual. It’s not really that we just want to get casual users into the game. We really want core fighters to enjoy it as well. What we really wanted to do was to bring fighting games out of their two-dimensional hole… to let the fighters out of the square, so to speak, and show players a future view of what fighting games can be. This it what it can become and right now in this generation, you’ve got so much power that you can do it – sticking to making a fighter that is so hardcore in its roots would be a bit of a waste, we thought. We just wanted to redefine the genre.”

 

[grap3fruitman]

Nothing new but still... This line made me smirk: "Just because we call it fighting entertainment doesn’t mean that we’re taking away the fighting game elements."

Well you would have to add fighting game elements first before being able to remove them.

 

[matsu]

Pure marketing strategy .

What's entertaining in fighting game is depth.And QTE is some kind of overused meme.

But i admit i am not against an evolution in term of interactivity.The team behind VF did it with VF3 if i remember well but they removed it because it was hard to use it properly.

That's bold to try to mix entertainment and gameplay and as far as i know the one appealed by the shiny side are always pleased but the others....

And before trying to make it the next step just make it compete with other fighting games.

 

[DriftSlave]

still...when trying to appeal to the FGC you don't say shit like "fighting entertainment" because it sends messages like "Casual Fighting game" among other things. Team Ninja has not proved to be competent in making a fighting game that can have casuals in mind(easy to pick up) but have alot of the hardcore(to master). Frankly there are two ways that are proven to go about this....

The first way is what Capcom has done time and time again, make the game easy enough for people to get into but have things for people to learn(invoke a learning curve), SFIV had FADC and everyone should be aware on how universal that system was in SFIV(it was quite brilliant). SFxTK dealt away with double motions and simplified the controls even more, however there is still alot of depth to be had with the games juggling system and tag mechanics making it have easy access but have alot of core elements for people to sink their teeth in....despite what people say. To a lesser extent, SCV rebuilding itself is another example of this. The Soul Series has always been user friendly but also had depth in its gameplay and could be played at high levels, SCV had introduced alot of new sub-systems and generally new ways the game is played appealing to both ends of the spectrum.

The other way is just appealing to the FGC in general. What I mean by this is...Look at the games that stayed true to their roots and didn't really change their ways but are still played in major tournaments around the world. Tekken just keep evolving and always had a steady pace in releasing titles both in the arcade and on console. KOF stayed true to their roots with KOFXIII and because of it people love it, it does not appeal to casuals really as its a game with generally high execution to play on a competitive level and the turns people off however it still has a strong community behind it. VF is on the same end with it being highly technical but VF success in the west hasn't been good due to arcades being nonexistent, however Sega is still giving it's community what they wanted and will release VF5FS as a digital release, only time will tell if VF comes back or not...and this generally effects DOA because they are in a similar situation...DOA needs to look at what Sega is doing...and their companies as well...because right now...DOA5 is under the radar....with about 6 months away from release...things are not looking so hot....and with NG3 flopping...they really need to make DOA5 fly. This is a chance for them to redeem themself for NG3 because it seems they fucked up the unfuckable.....hopefully they learn that easy =/= a better game and that they should listen to their community.

looks like i went off on another rant...forgive me.

 

[DR2K]

DOA has always been pushing the genre forward, looks like its still going to. They just need to put a little more thought into the base mechanics, which is what they're doing this time around.

 

[DriftSlave]

how are they pushing it forward when they are not innovating anything? DOA2 was innovative...at it's time...you may not think meter and stuff like that are what people care about but it isn't the fact that it's there it's on how its used.
Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur didn't really have meter before their last iterations....but it worked out for them.

In the end...powerblows alone are not going to push anything forward except for DOA having a early grave....

 

[DR2K]

how are they pushing it forward when they are not innovating anything? DOA2 was innovative...at it's time...you may not think meter and stuff like that are what people care about but it isn't the fact that it's there it's on how its used.
Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur didn't really have meter before their last iterations....but it worked out for them.

In the end...powerblows alone are not going to push anything forward except for DOA having a early grave....

Enviormental interactions play a huge role in how the game is viewed and watched. It evolved in DOA5. Some fighters are just getting with that program this gen.

Adding meter management isn't going to offer anything new. Rewarding people for losing is not going to bring the hype. Staying true to DOA and refining the mechanics would be much more beneficial than anything else.

 

[DriftSlave]

I didn't say DOA needed meter, I said that they do need something to bring them hype. Powerblows can do that. I can easily see that happening...if they can be landed often in a competitive situation. Like you said they are using the environment more, that's exactly what Powerblows do, target the environment to deal more damage...however not being able to land them consistently doesn't help...What makes Super/Ultra's, CE, or X-rays Popular is because they can be landed on a consistent basis.

They have time to refine the system, as many sub-systems do...the charge cancel in SFxTK was originally a throw away idea...but towards the end of development it turned out to be something strong and a valuable tool for characters in said game, point is...it changed and evolved from a pointless, gimmicky system to something effective and rather cool. Powerblows are cool from the start, now being able to consistently hit them will make them better....maybe overall they will add some kind of damage scaling to them but i'd rather have then never seeing them in a match.

 

[DrDogg]

Enviormental interactions play a huge role in how the game is viewed and watched. It evolved in DOA5. Some fighters are just getting with that program this gen.

What stage in DOA4 had the most environmental interaction? I'd probably say the dinosaur stage (Prehistoric Playground?). Guess what stage was banned at DOA4 tournaments...

I don't like all of the environmental interaction in the demo stage. I think it's very distracting and takes away from the fight at high levels of play. I'm not complaining much though, because it's only one stage and the casuals will eat it up. We've already seen that the raft stage has much less interaction, which I'm happy about. If worse comes to worse, we can still do a Smash-like stage selection at tournaments.

 

[DriftSlave]

well doesn't the raft stage have a cliff hanger too? so we dont even know yet....who knows you maybe able to do ring outs now...lolz....because SCV have tekken infinite stages~ It's a chance that i can happen....and it mite be a nice change of pace.

 

[matsu]

I just hope that they won't limit stage interaction to two square with shit happening all around and slopes.I'll miss multiple layers stages as Lorelei Azuchi or freedom survivor if they do so

And what i dislike right now is the transition of cliffhanger.I already miss the camera behind your character jumping the clfif with that crazy heigtht.It cuts my breath all the time i do it,
That's what i call entertainment.

 

[Allan Paris]

well doesn't the raft stage have a cliff hanger too?

yeah it does but it doesn't have a background that can interact with the players. Nothing really distracting, but like you mentioned, maybe the bottom part has crazy shit going on? Going by the simplistic flow of the raft part, the lower part should fine. Maybe you'll probably end up being ankles deep in water for the rest of the stage if you get down there.

 

[Awesmic]

Please don't bash me for this, but while we're talkin' about cliffhangers, I felt this should be addressed...

If it has already has been brought up, then I'm sorry.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Yeah, you lose 10 points of damage if the person breaks your cliffhanger throw or guards your cliffhanger attack.

 

[virtuaPAI]

yeah it does but it doesn't have a background that can interact with the players. Nothing really distracting, but like you mentioned, maybe the bottom part has crazy shit going on? Going by the simplistic flow of the raft part, the lower part should fine. Maybe you'll probably end up being ankles deep in water for the rest of the stage if you get down there.

-Hopefully not. Do not need nothing but stuns. would feel like doa4 all over again.

 

[DrDogg]

well doesn't the raft stage have a cliff hanger too? so we dont even know yet....who knows you maybe able to do ring outs now...lolz....because SCV have tekken infinite stages~ It's a chance that i can happen....and it mite be a nice change of pace.

I don't mind the cliffhanger, that's not really new in DOA. What we know of the raft stage is already less hectic than the demo stage. Nothing really happens on the raft, it just starts moving. On the first level of the demo stage all kinds of craziness is going down.

And what i dislike right now is the transition of cliffhanger.I already miss the camera behind your character jumping the clfif with that crazy heigtht.It cuts my breath all the time i do it,
That's what i call entertainment.

We've only seen one stage in full, so it's very possible the jump down is still present.

Maybe you'll probably end up being ankles deep in water for the rest of the stage if you get down there.

If water makes everything CH again, that could make for a very interesting stage. Like the rain stage in DOA2U. Limbo stun infinite please... lol

Please don't bash me for this, but while we're talkin' about cliffhangers, I felt this should be addressed...

As the aggressor, you should absolutely NOT take damage from the cliffhanger. I think someone else already mentioned it, but if not it definitely needs to be added to the feedback thread.

 

[x Sypher x]

Yeah, you lose 10 points of damage if the person breaks your cliffhanger throw or guards your cliffhanger attack.

That's gay lol.

 

[Tones]

It most def has something going for it.

WWE games wheren't entertaining. Ehrgeiz: God Bless the Ring on the other hand... Brings back memories of fighting that dog during the credits while trying to collect Items.

 

[Keylay]

Yeah, you lose 10 points of damage if the person breaks your cliffhanger throw or guards your cliffhanger attack.

If you guard a strike then you won't take any damage. Only if they break your throw.

I think they need at least 3 options instead of two though. I don't like the 50/50.

 

[x Sypher x]

If you guard a strike then you won't take any damage. Only if they break your throw.

I think they need at least 3 options instead of two though. I don't like the 50/50.

What could possibly be the 3rd option? I think it's fine at 2. Like how wake up kicks should remain at 2 levels instead of 3.