GamesTM: Dead Or Alive 5 “the next step” for fighting games, says Team Ninja

[Rikuto]

Because being able to break a throw on reaction is stupid and ruins throws. The only way you should be able to break a throw is if you read it right, like in 3S (or Skullgirls) where you have to input the command on almost the same frame as your opponent does.

Throw breaks in SCV work more like throw softening in ST where you only lessen the damage and, at the same time, prevent your opponent from having positional advantage.

If someone breaks my throw in SC, they will like take like 5 damage.

If my throw comes out, it will do either 100+ damage, or just outright kill them.

"softening" is an understatement. It's the difference between life and death against me, and often it has to do with breaking the CORRECT throw at the CORRECT time. Environment cranks that damage up to 11.

 

[virtuaPAI]

which DOA are you referring to?

-You can fuzzy guard throws in all of the Doa's. Not everyone did it in Doa4 cause the threat between a mid attack and throw was not as prevalent as it was in the past games. Say with Doa2 and Doa3, it was used more often due to command throw speeds maxing at 8 frames and the fastest mid being around 12 frames. Fuzzying would duck a throw, while letting you stand up in time to block a mid...pretty much a defensive option select.

 

[Allan Paris]

You know what, you're right. I feel that in 4 you cannot do it consistently which why I said that. Still it can be done, so whatever.

 

[virtuaPAI]

You know what, you're right. I feel that in 4 you cannot do it consistently which why I said that. Still it can be done, so whatever.

LMAO, Bro...I'm trying so hard to forget that game. Nothing worked Properly. Everything was looped guessing.

 

[Allan Paris]

-You can fuzzy guard throws in all of the Doa's. Not everyone did it in Doa4 cause the threat between a mid attack and throw was not as prevalent as it was in the past games. Say with Doa2 and Doa3, it was used more often due to command throw speeds maxing at 8 frames and the fastest mid being around 12 frames. Fuzzying would duck a throw, while letting you stand up in time to block a mid...pretty much a defensive option select.

Yeah ducking/fuzzy guarding them were great in those DOA's. You could do it on reaction and not having to pre-guess on the throw. I've been playing DOA2U a lot lately, trying to forget DOA4 my damn-self. It's so hard to forget after playing DOA 4 for so many years. DOA2U is easing the pain though.

 

[d3v]

No and no. Just no.

I don't even understand why you don't want something to be escapable on reaction. Nothing else in DOA is guaranteed, but you want the throw break to be guaranteed. Please explain why throws shouldn't be breakable on reaction, but you can easily escape everything else in the game.

This is coming from a 2D background, but from our experience, letting throws be breakable/techable on reaction ruins the delicate RPS dynamic of "attack < block/guard < throw." Compare ST where throwing someone 5 times in a row is perfectly viable to BB where non-command throws are barely used due to the large window where you can tech them on reaction. In the older games, the emphasis was always on reading your opponent and countering; jab them out in ST/SF2, tech on the same frame in 3S (heck, IIRC 3S actually allowed you to tech the throw before the animation came out, but not after).

As for being able to escape everything else, let's just say I'm firmly on Rikuto's camp on certain aspects of the game (read: when a guy gets comboed, the only way he should be able to escape is when the combo gets dropped).

 

[DriftSlave]

Because being able to break a throw on reaction is stupid and ruins throws. The only way you should be able to break a throw is if you read it right, like in 3S (or Skullgirls) where you have to input the command on almost the same frame as your opponent does.

Throw breaks in SCV work more like throw softening in ST where you only lessen the damage and, at the same time, prevent your opponent from having positional advantage.

I wasn't really agreeing with it, i was just stating it was odd...Im someone who plays games no one apparently plays(KOFXIII, VF5) so throws in those games are vastly different, Im generally not tripping on the 5% damage inflicted when you break a cliffhanger throw, it's w/e I like how they had a special animation for it though~ I like things like that(Think Alisa's Throw break in T6 or SFxTK), I'm just worried about how it all fits into Hayashi's Grand scheme of things. There maybe more new system mechanics.....im just speculating though, but playing the demo for hours on end it seems like they had put alot of thought into the new danger zones maybe they did other things or just more ingenious danger zones we haven't seen yet, I just think the random things should go away(Raptors, Cars...well Cars can stay).

 

[MrMoon360]

See I'm not sure if I like it. I've already successfully outplayed my opponent and knocked them off the stage, why do they get to a chance to make a comeback here? Why am I being punished for doing well? It's the same ass-backwards thought process that's present in other elements of DOA. I like the suggestion of just letting the event unfold but I don't think the devs would do that at this point, as they've put too much effort into it.

I think it would put too much emphasis on "QTE" to remove the defense mechanism of the sequence. I don't mind it much sense (like recently tweeted), waiting til the last moment to hit a command will yield the greater chance of succeeding in your attack. The throws are more difficult to see coming. Although, I do agree, the counter damage should be removed from the aggressor.

 

[x Sypher x]

I wonder what happens if you do nothing lol.

 

[MrMoon360]

I wonder what happens if you do nothing lol.

When you do nothing, you fall and take MASSIVE damage.
Its actually quite comical. On the demo stage in particular, you miss the ledge grab, then fall and time slows down so you can clearly see a couple cars explode and damage you in mid-air.
It looks hilarious!

 

[x Sypher x]

When you do nothing, you fall and take MASSIVE damage.
Its actually quite comical. On the demo stage in particular, you miss the ledge grab, then fall and time slows down so you can clearly see a couple cars explode and damage you in mid-air.
It looks hilarious!

No I mean if the attacker does nothing during the cliffhanger, like if he doesn't decide to choose between attack or throw.

 

[Matt Ponton]

No I mean if the attacker does nothing during the cliffhanger, like if he doesn't decide to choose between attack or throw.

It defaults to the attack option. If the opponent guards then everyone is neutral, if the opponent doesn't guard then the opponent takes damage.

It's basic game theory.

 

[Rikuto]

With that said, fuck game theory. Give me my damage for setting up the dangerzone and landing my attack.

Didn't have game theory denying me damage in any of the previous DOA falls.

 

[MrMoon360]

With that said, fuck game theory. Give me my damage for setting up the dangerzone and landing my attack.

Didn't have game theory denying me damage in any of the previous DOA falls.

Hopefully not all dangerzones give the option to defend or evade in this game. Stairs and small ledges would be a nice change of pace in stages.

 

[DrDogg]

This is coming from a 2D background...

DOA is not a 2D game. Throws were VERY differently in 2D fighters compared to 3D fighters. It's one of the many reasons I don't like to play 2D fighters competitively.