Getting Blown Up At Close Range

ACSeraph

New Member
Hi there, sorry for the sudden thread post when I'm not really an active member (though I've been lurking here for a very long time), but I was hoping to get some advice to improve my game with Ayane.

I've been having major problems lately getting completely blown up by fast characters rushing me down and going crazy with short fast strings at point blank range. It applies to a lot of characters, but especially think Kasumi or Mai.

It seems like even if I block their attacks there isn't anything I can do to land a quick poke or reset the momentum. Every time I try to throw say a quick jab or 2P after blocking I get counter hit by something for massive damage instead. I guess this is just because they must be at a huge frame advantage, but I really don't know what I should be doing when this starts happening, especially because people tend to start spamming various quick strings over and over until something inevitably breaks my defense, or simply just tick throw me.

If I get a clean block surely there must be something better for me to do than keep blocking with my thumb up my ass. How can I safely escape? Is playing the dangerous hold guessing game or burning meter really the only answer?

I really appreciate any advice you guys can give. I'm far from the greatest player, but this is one challenge I really need to overcome if I'm going to be sticking with this game.
 
Last edited:

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
You're probably getting blown up because they're delaying their attacks, one thing about Kasumi and mai is that although they're fast and dominate up close, once their strings end, they're at a disadvantage on block and it's your turn. You can also try to crush their attacks since there's ways you can avoid their highs if that's what they're doing.

And if you're trying to throw punish their quick jabs or 2Ps that's not a good thing to do. Even tho they're at a disadvantage they aren't technically at a major one so if you try to throw their blocked 2P or PP or P, chances are you'll get hi countered, it's best just to strike after that unless they do an attack that places them at a major disadvantage
 

deathofaninja

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
News Team
@KasumiLover you pretty much described every reason Kasumi should be nerfed in the last paragraph because there is no punishing that character even when you should be able to unless the player picks one of her worst moves for no reason at all.

Also, Seraph are you playing on a PS4 regular? If so like I did you are going to get wrecked because the game is so busted it can't even run at a normal frame rate capacity a year later. So yeah a n00b Kasumi could beat you online because of that alone.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
@KasumiLover you pretty much described every reason Kasumi should be nerfed in the last paragraph because there is no punishing that character even when you should be able to unless the player picks one of her worst moves for no reason at all.

Also, Seraph are you playing on a PS4 regular? If so like I did you are going to get wrecked because the game is so busted it can't even run at a normal frame rate capacity a year later. So yeah a n00b Kasumi could beat you online because of that alone.
Nah I don't think so. When Kasumi is -6 or around -1 or so it's no longer her turn, the real tea is people are quick to throw punish when that shouldn't be your main go to unless she's at a huge disadvantage, you're just better off striker punishing or beginning your turn with a strike. Kasumi is gonna be good regardless because she has the speed offensive advantage to thrive, she has absolutely no defensive pressure since that patch a while ago took away her 9PP which gave her +1 to -1 so if she does get a stun that's the opponent's fault for being open or caught trying to strike when she's got her P, 6P, and other stuff to beat out her opponent when they're at a speed disadvantage or it isn't their turn.

And it's not the fact so much a noob Kasumi could beat you, it's just knowing the match up, Kasumi is always gonna be one of those characters who'll either wreck you or be wrecked depending on how prepared you are in the situation. Even if she was nerfed, that's not gonna really hinder her since she's already toned down for the most part, it's just knowing the match up and being aware she has the tools to shut you down.
 

deathofaninja

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
News Team
I know the matchup well:

She gets away with everything and her annoying speed and mixup IS defense because her slower opponent will never get a turn to strike.

She's definitely op and everyone but her mains knows it. Whatever type of setup you are looking for... Kasumi pretty much has it. It's annoying.

Not to mention the busted frame rates on console once more...

Break holds were made so that it was humanly possible to read and hold characters like Christie and Kasumi at least in DOA6... Otherwise they are lame additions to the game that I try to opt out from using.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
I know the matchup well:

She gets away with everything and her annoying speed and mixup IS defense because her slower opponent will never get a turn to strike.

She's definitely op and everyone but her mains knows it. Whatever type of setup you are looking for... Kasumi pretty much has it. It's annoying.

Not to mention the busted frame rates on console once more...

Break holds were made so that it was humanly possible to read and hold characters like Christie and Kasumi at least in DOA6... Otherwise they are lame additions to the game that I try to opt out from using.
Yeah they will, you just have to read her and block to punish, and her mix ups are how she gains advantage but even quite a bit of her stuff can be crouched if you're willing to risk getting hit by a mid but thats the same for any other character.

And tbh Kasumi is way more simple to defend against than Christie imo, Christie can go into Jakeiho and that avoids basically anything that doesn't track and she has her stuns still that force you to guess or fall. People just call Christie worse than in LR because in 6 you actually have to play smart with her and she cant get away with what she could in LR. And that's how it is in alot of games too, you can know the MU "well" but it doesn't stop the character from being annoying to fight either. But Kasumi isn't broken imo. Otherwise everyone would use her
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Check with HajinShinobi @ACSeraph , do you have a discord by any chance? The Ayane discord and Hajin may be able to help you further in improving your gameplay and dealing with certain characters as Ayane.

In regards to tick throwing, you can fuzzy certain options but really comes down to general situations along with netplay pre-buffering that may prove to be a hassle at times. Tick throws with no universal throw break system during guard situations is a fundamental fighting game flaw unfortunately, but it is possible to reduce some of that workload and increasing your options overall.
 
Last edited:

ACSeraph

New Member
Thanks for the replies and advice!

@deathofaninja I'm actually on a PS4 Pro so the game has always felt like it runs pretty well for me. As for balance, given that I'm an Ayane player I don't think I'm in any real position to complain haha. I really think there is some fundamental flaw in my CQC gameplan actually, because I get blown up by more than just Kasumi.

@KasumiLover is there any chance you could detail a few of Kasumi's common CQC lockdown strategies? Knowing exactly what people are attempting to trap me with may help a lot in developing a counter actually. Especially as the Kasumi player, at what points would you consider your "turn" to be over?

@DestructionBomb I do have discord actually and I would definitely be interested in joining deeper discussions about the characters and matchups. Seems to be a lot less strategy info on the forum these days than there was for previous games. I assumed it was lack of interest in 6, but maybe it's all just in a different place. HajinShinobi actually kindly gave me some advice for Ayane long ago in 5 and it really did improve my game in ways that continue to show even in 6.

@WAZAAAAA ahhh yes the 4P panic spam. I used to rely on this a lot in 5, but kind of worked it out of my play for the most part because I viewed it as a "dishonest" strategy that wouldn't work in higher level play. I use 4P mostly after my own attacks are blocked, catching players trying to retake offence with a quick jab. Maybe I do need to start using it more in defence.

I really want to know how high level Ayane players react in this situation. Weirdly I never seem to encounter high rank Ayane players (or just at all really, is Ayane not popular anymore?), in lobbies or whatever, so it's hard to learn from observation.
 
Last edited:

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Thanks for the replies and advice!

@deathofaninja I'm actually on a PS4 Pro so the game has always felt like it runs pretty well for me. As for balance, given that I'm an Ayane player I don't think I'm in any real position to complain haha. I really think there is some fundamental flaw in my CQC gameplan actually, because I get blown up by more than just Kasumi.

@KasumiLover is there any chance you could detail a few of Kasumi's common CQC lockdown strategies? Knowing exactly what people are attempting to trap me with may help a lot in developing a counter actually. Especially as the Kasumi player, at what points would you consider your "turn" to be over?

@DestructionBomb I do have discord actually and I would definitely be interested in joining deeper discussions about the characters and matchups. Seems to be a lot less strategy info on the forum these days than there was for previous games. I assumed it was lack of interest in 6, but maybe it's all just in a different place. HajinShinobi actually kindly gave me some advice for Ayane long ago in 5 and it really did improve my game in ways that continue to show even in 6.

@WAZAAAAA ahhh yes the 4P panic spam. I used to rely on this a lot in 5, but kind of worked it out of my play for the most part because I viewed it as a "dishonest" strategy that wouldn't work in higher level play. I use 4P mostly after my own attacks are blocked, catching players trying to retake offence with a quick jab. Maybe I do need to start using it more in defence.

I really want to know how high level Ayane players react in this situation. Weirdly I never seem to encounter high rank Ayane players (or just at all really, is Ayane not popular anymore?), in lobbies or whatever, so it's hard to learn from observation.
Kasumi generally needs a CH or a stun to really get anywhere so when she's jabbing with attacks like P, 6P, or 2P, at the end of virtually all of her enders that arent lows her turn is over. Her P strike is one of the fastest in the game so usually when she's in her face she can use that stop anything you have coming but that's where Ayane's 2P can help since its +0 and kind resets the neutral. She also has her 1K which makes her +6 so that's when she's generally more scarier to deal with since at that point she doesn't really have to use only her strikes that are quick to hit you, she can use her mid kicks and anything basically that's 16i or faster to bully you like 6K.

It's honestly kinda hard to explain since theres so much I can say and I kinda get worked up thinking about it but this one guide I made a long while ago can help you get a feel of what Kasumi players will use commonly when their "turn" is in place, skip to the color coded sections at the end so you can kinda get a grasp of what Kasumi's go to options are in set situations like if she's pressuring you, defending, at a distance, etc. Once you know that and simplify her options, it becomes easier to know what she's gonna do:


At least you don't have to worry about her old 9PP anymore since it used to be +1 to -1 on block but it's unsafer now because of the force tech options she can do from it now
 

deathofaninja

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
News Team
Yeah they will, you just have to read her and block to punish, and her mix ups are how she gains advantage but even quite a bit of her stuff can be crouched if you're willing to risk getting hit by a mid but thats the same for any other character.

And tbh Kasumi is way more simple to defend against than Christie imo, Christie can go into Jakeiho and that avoids basically anything that doesn't track and she has her stuns still that force you to guess or fall. People just call Christie worse than in LR because in 6 you actually have to play smart with her and she cant get away with what she could in LR. And that's how it is in alot of games too, you can know the MU "well" but it doesn't stop the character from being annoying to fight either. But Kasumi isn't broken imo. Otherwise everyone would use her

Everyone uses her. Seriously sometimes Kasumi is the only character I fight.

And what do you mean Christie can't do what she used to do? She's almost as bad if not worse than before because she can bound off nothing.

Speed based character are ridiculous in this game because reacting is impossible unless you use a break hold. Heck even in tournaments you don't see the holding you used to see or hardly ever hear good read anymore because DOA6 vanilla is hot garbage.

Wake me up when heavies have a point and are fun to play again.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Everyone uses her. Seriously sometimes Kasumi is the only character I fight.

And what do you mean Christie can't do what she used to do? She's almost as bad if not worse than before because she can bound off nothing.

Speed based character are ridiculous in this game because reacting is impossible unless you use a break hold. Heck even in tournaments you don't see the holding you used to see or hardly ever hear good read anymore because DOA6 vanilla is hot garbage.

Wake me up when heavies have a point and are fun to play again.
Kasumi is popular but not every one does tbh, but thats mainly because she's meant to play a certain way.

And Christie is nerfed compared to LR, and tbh she doesn't really need a bound. The difficulty certain characters have bounding their opponent is mainly since its not much a part of their game plan, Christie doesn't really need to go bound set ups while Kasumi does for her damage output. Same with Kokoro and other characters, the bound inputs and such seem mostly like it was an after thought to their playstyle, but then again bounds arent really necessary for certain characters.

And hasn't it always been that way? Speed based characters have always dominated tournaments, or characters with an array of options like Helena since its harder to react to their mix ups or risk being thrown. Even in LR the reason people didn't hold much was because they had stagger escapes as escape options so they could just go back to blocking or avoid the more lengthy stun options. But then again I kinda disregard the LR system since that game's old, although I know people favor it because either their character's stronger in that meta or they prefer the meta.

And heavies are basically the same as in LR if not stronger because of the hold and throw damage, idk if grapplers were ever truly good except maybe in DOA3 xD but slower characters are usually always the worst characters in the game to use, even with buffs Bass would probably be the same since he still has a major speed disadvantage but his throws are faster and stronger
 

deathofaninja

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
News Team
In DOA5 I could definitely whoop Kasumi's ass, and if I caught her it was a satisfying catch.

DOA6 she is too safe less throw punishable (especially if I play on my slim PS4 and not PC) and has too many options compared to other characters.

And I'm not trying to complain but I think Kasumi and Ayane have equal if not better throw options than grapplers. I've been blown away by their raw HC throw damage... Meanwhile Raidou really has to earn his throw damage and he has that 66T that does no damage and gives players time to think up their next play as the animation never ends.

Look I'm attacking Kasumi because I've seen you attack Bass and Genfu some pretty ridiculous reasons like you don't like them cause you think Bass is ugly or Genfu is old or his story yada yada.

The point is they are fun characters for many people and they spent many hours dedicated to their respective characters.

And I have expected this type of behavior out of Kasumi mains because they know they don't ever have to worry about the character being cut.

I like Kasumi but her audience of fans are often times one sided people. I definitely want Genfu back because he was a clutch performer, I want Leon back because he was a fun character, not just because he has muscles that make me want to bust a load in my jeans.

You want people to back Natoroa. A freaking Koei character and in the process of that you want to take shots at OG characters.

Girl please.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Look I'm attacking Kasumi because I've seen you attack Bass and Genfu some pretty ridiculous reasons like you don't like them cause you think Bass is ugly or Genfu is old or his story yada yada.

The point is they are fun characters for many people and they spent many hours dedicated to their respective characters.

And I have expected this type of behavior out of Kasumi mains because they know they don't ever have to worry about the character being cut.

Girl please.

Sweet jesus for all that is holy, ignore him. He's allowed to be heavily bias for his posts even if most is incorrect or correct. Move on. Someone is trying to learn here.

Thanks for the replies and advice!

@DestructionBomb I do have discord actually and I would definitely be interested in joining deeper discussions about the characters and matchups. Seems to be a lot less strategy info on the forum these days than there was for previous games. I assumed it was lack of interest in 6, but maybe it's all just in a different place. HajinShinobi actually kindly gave me some advice for Ayane long ago in 5 and it really did improve my game in ways that continue to show even in 6.

Apologies for the posts you've been seeing here @ACSeraph, pay no mind to it. Hope you can improve with your gameplan. Hajin may be able to further help you out. You can also record matches and then post it in the Ayane discord or FSD discord for Ayane players to be able to help you.

https://discord.gg/JqNEpa - Ayane discord. Feel free to ask Hajin within it.

https://discord.gg/wTQeZT - FSD Discord

Personally I like forums better, I am a firm believer that discords can be a mess when it comes to tech and information, but nothing we can do as times are moving sadly. But since the forums are dead (tech-wise or information), most choose to post information on Discord instead.

@DestructionBomb Seems to be a lot less strategy info on the forum these days than there was for previous games. I assumed it was lack of interest in 6, but maybe it's all just in a different place.

It's a lot less, and for good reasons mostly from what the result came to be due to KT's approach and output with DOA6. Lack of interest for 6 from players as a prime example (some ignorant, but most for genuinely very good reasons) etc.

DOA6 didn't exactly place itself on a pedestal as a "great" game, realistically it's a DOA game with a muscle cushion on that's ready to pop at any given time, but it is a fun game at the very least (which is the same as any other DOA game). No one will judge you if you suddenly vanish since there are better options out there so no worries. Learning is always available and people will always help you regardless of the game you play.
 
Last edited:

ACSeraph

New Member
Alright so I've posted some stuff on the discord but I thought I might as well go ahead and post it here as well for future reference. (I'm the same as you @DestructionBomb I like to see info preserved on traditional boards. I guess I'm old :genfu:)

---

Just messing around with Kasumi in training mode, I think it's pressure built around her:

P,P,P,2K(High-High-Mid-Low)
P,P,Delay,P(High-High-Mid)
P,P,2K(High-High-Low)
4P(Mid)
4P,P(Mid-High)
4P,K(Mid-Mid-Launch)
4P,2K(Mid-Low)
Various throws to catch hold attempts and blocking.

^That is a pretty brutal set of high paced mix ups, and I can't last long defending against that once she closes in on me. (For reference I'm in the S ranks, so players are definitely applying this pressure with a solid gameplan).

So in that situation, with those moves being "spammed" in random unpredictable ways, what is my best option for escaping and getting back to my preferred mid-long range? How do truly good Ayane players deal with that pressure specifically, what moves at what times. I guess that's what I'm looking to learn.

---

Alright, so labbing it with my (awesome) wife, I'm kind of narrowing it down. Specifically it's defending against P,P,P and P,P,2K and what to do after (in the midst of all the other moves and mix-ups happening during the CQC exchange).

Basically it's pretty hard/dangerous to block the P,P,2K with the threat of P,P,P blowing your ass up with a (ridiculous) +30 stun. With a less experienced Kasumi it seems you can guard both pretty consistently by delaying your low guard slightly, which has the added advantage of guarding P,P,P,2K as well. However when advanced players are intentionally delaying P,P,Delay,P it becomes a much more dangerous guessing game. This means for me I often get stuck simply eating the 2K that leaves Kasumi at +6.

So, my two common situations are eating the 2K or blocking the 3rd P, and I don't know what my best, safest option is in either situation. Ayane's 4P and the aforementioned 7K will stuff any attempts Kasumi makes at more jab strings, but if she opts to use 4P,P it seems to beat out any of my options and lead to a huge stun. Try to hold that 4P and you are risking more jab strings, or worse, a high counter throw. This is exactly where and why I find myself completely scared into blocking and getting blown up with Kasumi, and I would love to hear more about how to deal with this situation.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
---

Just messing around with Kasumi in training mode, I think it's pressure built around her:

P,P,P,2K(High-High-Mid-Low)
P,P,Delay,P(High-High-Mid)
P,P,2K(High-High-Low)
4P(Mid)
4P,P(Mid-High)
4P,K(Mid-Mid-Launch)
4P,2K(Mid-Low)
Various throws to catch hold attempts and blocking.

^That is a pretty brutal set of high paced mix ups, and I can't last long defending against that once she closes in on me. (For reference I'm in the S ranks, so players are definitely applying this pressure with a solid gameplan).

So in that situation, with those moves being "spammed" in random unpredictable ways, what is my best option for escaping and getting back to my preferred mid-long range? How do truly good Ayane players deal with that pressure specifically, what moves at what times. I guess that's what I'm looking to learn.

---

Alright, so labbing it with my (awesome) wife, I'm kind of narrowing it down. Specifically it's defending against P,P,P and P,P,2K and what to do after (in the midst of all the other moves and mix-ups happening during the CQC exchange).

Basically it's pretty hard/dangerous to block the P,P,2K with the threat of P,P,P blowing your ass up with a (ridiculous) +30 stun. With a less experienced Kasumi it seems you can guard both pretty consistently by delaying your low guard slightly, which has the added advantage of guarding P,P,P,2K as well. However when advanced players are intentionally delaying P,P,Delay,P it becomes a much more dangerous guessing game. This means for me I often get stuck simply eating the 2K that leaves Kasumi at +6.

So, my two common situations are eating the 2K or blocking the 3rd P, and I don't know what my best, safest option is in either situation. Ayane's 4P and the aforementioned 7K will stuff any attempts Kasumi makes at more jab strings, but if she opts to use 4P,P it seems to beat out any of my options and lead to a huge stun. Try to hold that 4P and you are risking more jab strings, or worse, a high counter throw. This is exactly where and why I find myself completely scared into blocking and getting blown up with Kasumi, and I would love to hear more about how to deal with this situation.
You just have to learn to react to it since PP2K is reactable and can be interrupted, after the PP since that jails on NH and CH and you see a potential 2K coming, you can just jab Kasumi out of it since that's a standing low. You can also ss and sidestep attack the PP so you can avoid both follow ups and by the time if she does try to PP2k, it'll be too late since the sidestep attack will stuff it xD

As for 4P or 4PK the best thing to do is just block those or sidestep them since the worst she can do is go for the 4P2K low and if you crouch to guard that itll avoid the 4PP too if she goes for that, in which case the worse case scenario is they go for 4PK and launch you. If you sidestep the 4P string tho you'll be quick enough to be able to sidestep attack her options since the 4P2K will be too slow to hit you if you time it right.

Honestly tho as Ayane and characters without much defensive options you're gonna have to guess regardless, she's not like a Marie or Leifang who have sabakis and parries to simplify the guessing game(that's why Kasumi players hate Leifang since she's basically able to shut down anything Kasumi can do and she's not able to easily pressure since Lei and Marie both have their sabakis and they have OHs so they can beat out Kasumi when she's trying to fish for a poke, plus Leifang has a lot of attacks with built in parries.
 
ALL DOA6 DOA5 DOA4 DOA3 DOA2U DOAD
Top