AlexXsWx
Active Member
I think that all grabs (throws, holds, offensive holds, and attacks that play grab animation) that cause opponent to play any animation that doesn't leave him standing, leave him zero ground invincibility frames and limit his techroll option to either "away from opponent" (which allows for unholdables) or nothing at all - all this given that you don't interrupt this animation with another one by doing a juggle.
This includes airborne throws (e.g.
or (Bending Stance) ) and combo throws (e.g. (hit) )
In addition to that there are also some attacks that have same property (e.g. doesn't let you to techroll; (counter-hit/stun) only allows to techroll away from opponent), but to my knowledge there is no strike-launcher that would have it (an interesting example is (With back to foe) which is a "super launcher" strike, but still allows for arbitrary techroll direction)
For some of these scenarios it is possible that the character has an option that covers both ground hit and unholdable
Some examples:
(whiff) will hit opponent on ground if he doesn't tech roll and will land as an unholdable if he does (-5 on block) - shout out to Master for sharing this one
(whiff) (forcetech / unholdable)
Next to wall: (low punch hold) (whiff) (whiff) (forcetech / unholdable)
Next to wall: (Bokuho) (whiff) (forcetech / unholdable)
I do realize that juggling opponent instead gives more guaranteed damage, but there might be some scenarios where this option could be used as a reset
Note that "away from opponent" can for the same fall animation mean "techroll back", "techroll to side" and "techroll forward" (if you run underneath launched opponent) based on your position. Techroll to side is 1 frame faster than techroll back. Walls often tend to push airborne opponent to your side, especially when you advance towards opponent
Example of grab that doesn't allow to techroll:
(low kick hold; causes a ground bounce that allows for a juggle)
To demonstrate that this has nothing to do with ground bounce:
(low punch hold) also does ground bounce but allows for a techroll
Another example that doesn't allow to techroll:
(only when there is a wall behind opponent)
Other interesting examples:
(hit) - is a throw-on-hit,
Christie's :[[P]]: (hit) - is a strike that causes auto-throw on hit,
(guard break) is a strike that causes auto-combo-throw on guard
I used my web app to find some of these setups, if you want to cover all possible options consider using it too - https://rawgit.com/AlexXsWx/DeadOrAliveMovelistVisualiser/1.0.4c/src/index.html (I've already entered data for some characters) - but be accurate when you enter frame data, the game doesn't always show it correctly, especially for various stances and feints. And if you do, consider sharing it with me so I can make it available for everyone
Bonus fun fact: Did you know that Zack is the only character who can harm himself by falling from ledge using hisAp taunt?
This includes airborne throws (e.g.
or (Bending Stance) ) and combo throws (e.g. (hit) )In addition to that there are also some attacks that have same property (e.g.
doesn't let you to techroll; (counter-hit/stun) only allows to techroll away from opponent), but to my knowledge there is no strike-launcher that would have it (an interesting example is (With back to foe) which is a "super launcher" strike, but still allows for arbitrary techroll direction)For some of these scenarios it is possible that the character has an option that covers both ground hit and unholdable
Some examples:
(whiff) will hit opponent on ground if he doesn't tech roll and will land as an unholdable if he does (-5 on block) - shout out to Master for sharing this one (whiff) (forcetech / unholdable) Next to wall: (low punch hold) (whiff) (whiff) (forcetech / unholdable) Next to wall: (Bokuho) (whiff) (forcetech / unholdable)I do realize that juggling opponent instead gives more guaranteed damage, but there might be some scenarios where this option could be used as a reset
Note that "away from opponent" can for the same fall animation mean "techroll back", "techroll to side" and "techroll forward" (if you run underneath launched opponent) based on your position. Techroll to side is 1 frame faster than techroll back. Walls often tend to push airborne opponent to your side, especially when you advance towards opponent
Example of grab that doesn't allow to techroll:
(low kick hold; causes a ground bounce that allows for a juggle)To demonstrate that this has nothing to do with ground bounce:
(low punch hold) also does ground bounce but allows for a techrollAnother example that doesn't allow to techroll:
(only when there is a wall behind opponent)Other interesting examples:
(hit) - is a throw-on-hit,Christie's :[[P]]: (hit) - is a strike that causes auto-throw on hit, (guard break) is a strike that causes auto-combo-throw on guardI used my web app to find some of these setups, if you want to cover all possible options consider using it too - https://rawgit.com/AlexXsWx/DeadOrAliveMovelistVisualiser/1.0.4c/src/index.html (I've already entered data for some characters) - but be accurate when you enter frame data, the game doesn't always show it correctly, especially for various stances and feints. And if you do, consider sharing it with me so I can make it available for everyone
Bonus fun fact: Did you know that Zack is the only character who can harm himself by falling from ledge using his
Ap taunt?
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