Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Okay I'm going to write briefly about Helena's guaranteed set ups obviously talking about her sit down stuns. I will go through each one detailing what is guaranteed from each one and how they will work post patch.
For the sake of not wasting time all attacks are tested on CH and Fastest Slow Escape so we can know what is truly guaranteed.
A heads up, one reason I am writing this is to clear up any confusion on what Helena's sit down stuns actually do and I also want a post to send to TN so they will understand just how bad her sit down stuns are and how the patch is going to make them even worse.
6PP (>) High P > Mid P
This one grants Helena +15. The only follow up that is guaranteed is 3P. You can do 3P4P for a launch but the launch is not guaranteed and the only attacks that will connect whilst they are airborne is 4K or 2P. You can continue the string with 3PPP but the second P will remove any degree of stun leaving Helena at -1 if free cancelled, and the third P will whiff entirely.
Post patch instead of getting a guaranteed wall combo we will only get a guaranteed 3P instead. Losing 63 points of guaranteed damage.
3PPP (>) Mid P > High P > Mid P
This string grants Helena again +15. This is the same as the above but with a 12 frame Mid P at the start of the string. The problem with this string is that due to it's length it ends one hit away from crossing the stun threshold. The only guaranteed follow up is 3P which crosses the stun threshold and knocks the opponent over so this sit down stun is actually useless.
Post patch this string won't guarantee a wall combo any more and there will be no way to hit the opponent into the wall as 3P is the only guaranteed follow up so Helena will lose 66 points of guaranteed damage reducing the combo's damage from 126 points of damage to 58 points of damage.
22/88P (Side Step P) Mid P
This move grants Helena +15. Again only allowing a 3P follow up. 3P4P will whiff so you cannot launch from this string. You can continue the string till the second P of 3PPP, free cancelling there leaves you only at +3 as this hit removes deep stun, you can finish the string which will cause knock down.
Post patch this attack won't guarantee wall damage either again only leaving Helena with the same options as the above two sit down stuns. Although with a good guess you can still get wall damage unlike 3PPP. The one buff for this move is that it will stun on NH though which is a plus.
BT 7P (>) Mid P
This one only grants Helena +13. Yep that's right Helena has a sit down stun that doesn't guarantee anything at all. No lousy 3P, nothing at all. This still interacts with walls though so she can still get 102 points of damage using 236PKP for a wall combo.
Post patch nothing has changed.
214P (>) Mid P
This move only grants Helena +13 when free cancelled but it has has good string follow ups so this one is actually useful. This one has a Low K sweep follow up that is guaranteed, a Mid P launcher that is guaranteed (although it requires very precise combo usage to be combo'd from) and a Mid P 3in1 follow that leads into BT. When free cancelled it guarantees nothing.
Post Patch there is no change to this move.
All in all Helena's sit down stuns are pretty worthless, she can't sit down stun into critical burst or launch. The only one you will find yourself using is 214P. Losing wall blow back is actually a nerf for Helena because she doesn't get enough frame advantage to guarantee a wall hit therefore she loses substantial guaranteed wall damage.
If her sit down stuns were +16 she could guarantee 9K. This would make the removal of wall blow back a buff for her like other characters. She could also mix up between 9K or 9P after landing one so she had some kind of mix up and was rewarded for landing one of these types of stuns.
It would be nice if she had one deep sit down stun, increasing the stun on 214P would be useful plus the animation would fit. Lastly giving her a feint stun would help too, BKO K would work as it's a High and has a lot of recovery when whiffed.
For the sake of not wasting time all attacks are tested on CH and Fastest Slow Escape so we can know what is truly guaranteed.
A heads up, one reason I am writing this is to clear up any confusion on what Helena's sit down stuns actually do and I also want a post to send to TN so they will understand just how bad her sit down stuns are and how the patch is going to make them even worse.
6PP (>) High P > Mid P
This one grants Helena +15. The only follow up that is guaranteed is 3P. You can do 3P4P for a launch but the launch is not guaranteed and the only attacks that will connect whilst they are airborne is 4K or 2P. You can continue the string with 3PPP but the second P will remove any degree of stun leaving Helena at -1 if free cancelled, and the third P will whiff entirely.
Post patch instead of getting a guaranteed wall combo we will only get a guaranteed 3P instead. Losing 63 points of guaranteed damage.
3PPP (>) Mid P > High P > Mid P
This string grants Helena again +15. This is the same as the above but with a 12 frame Mid P at the start of the string. The problem with this string is that due to it's length it ends one hit away from crossing the stun threshold. The only guaranteed follow up is 3P which crosses the stun threshold and knocks the opponent over so this sit down stun is actually useless.
Post patch this string won't guarantee a wall combo any more and there will be no way to hit the opponent into the wall as 3P is the only guaranteed follow up so Helena will lose 66 points of guaranteed damage reducing the combo's damage from 126 points of damage to 58 points of damage.
22/88P (Side Step P) Mid P
This move grants Helena +15. Again only allowing a 3P follow up. 3P4P will whiff so you cannot launch from this string. You can continue the string till the second P of 3PPP, free cancelling there leaves you only at +3 as this hit removes deep stun, you can finish the string which will cause knock down.
Post patch this attack won't guarantee wall damage either again only leaving Helena with the same options as the above two sit down stuns. Although with a good guess you can still get wall damage unlike 3PPP. The one buff for this move is that it will stun on NH though which is a plus.
BT 7P (>) Mid P
This one only grants Helena +13. Yep that's right Helena has a sit down stun that doesn't guarantee anything at all. No lousy 3P, nothing at all. This still interacts with walls though so she can still get 102 points of damage using 236PKP for a wall combo.
Post patch nothing has changed.
214P (>) Mid P
This move only grants Helena +13 when free cancelled but it has has good string follow ups so this one is actually useful. This one has a Low K sweep follow up that is guaranteed, a Mid P launcher that is guaranteed (although it requires very precise combo usage to be combo'd from) and a Mid P 3in1 follow that leads into BT. When free cancelled it guarantees nothing.
Post Patch there is no change to this move.
All in all Helena's sit down stuns are pretty worthless, she can't sit down stun into critical burst or launch. The only one you will find yourself using is 214P. Losing wall blow back is actually a nerf for Helena because she doesn't get enough frame advantage to guarantee a wall hit therefore she loses substantial guaranteed wall damage.
If her sit down stuns were +16 she could guarantee 9K. This would make the removal of wall blow back a buff for her like other characters. She could also mix up between 9K or 9P after landing one so she had some kind of mix up and was rewarded for landing one of these types of stuns.
It would be nice if she had one deep sit down stun, increasing the stun on 214P would be useful plus the animation would fit. Lastly giving her a feint stun would help too, BKO K would work as it's a High and has a lot of recovery when whiffed.
