Helena isn't OP?

snowymoonman

New Member
I've talked about this a few times now and it seems like no one really understands how good Helena is. I'm no Helena expert, but this character is pretty much a death blender of evasiveness that can be truly soul crushing (pun) at times. I only play her as a pocket character and I mean it's just too simple to be annoying with her. The only bad match ups I can think of would be Leifang, Gen Fu, Alpha, and Mila. Christie is also in there but in my opinion the matchup between Christie and Helena is like 6-4 in Christie's favor, whereas Leifang is more like a 7-3 with her punch parry. If someone could explain to me how she's NOT good/OP, that would be much appreciated. I just think that considering she has one of the best sidesteps in the game next to Christie's and Marie Roses', that goes under MIDS... That alone can put her at #2. Just my opinion however, so by all means, change my mind with hard evidence and conviction ;)
 

KasumiLover

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Well for starters, she's not very powerful, you have to work for damage, and she won't get very far if you mash with her. Also, she's average in speed, which puts her at a disadvantage against faster fighters, and her holds and throws are pretty below mediocre. She can be tough to deal with, but you gotta put in that work to win with her, so she's far from being OP....she's pretty high execution though.
 

snowymoonman

New Member
you have to work for damage
Isn't this the case with everyone though? There are very few guaranteed situations in DOA, and her ability to fish for stuns and comboing off of normal hit lows makes it pretty easy to get damage with her. While she isn't a "Half life off a CH strike" type of character, she can open defensive people up quite easily and get some decent damage off something like 2H+K, plus she goes under most mids in the game, and her blender mixup game is outrageously strong.
 

KasumiLover

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Isn't this the case with everyone though? There are very few guaranteed situations in DOA, and her ability to fish for stuns and comboing off of normal hit lows seems to me that she's not so hard to get damage with. While she isn't a "Half life off a CH strike" type of character, she can open defensive people up quite easily and get some decent damage off something like 2H+K, plus she goes under most mids in the game, and her blender mixup game is outrageously strong.
Not necessarily, damage easily comes to the grapplers and the heavy hitters, like Rachel who can do harsh damage with her throws and strikes in general, and bass who can do the high damage in 2-3 strikes that a weaker character like Kasumi would have to achieve in 5-7. As far as defense go, Have you watched JC akira and E Mann fight at one of the tourneys? As long as you put pressure on Helena and read her accurately, she's pretty beatable.
 

snowymoonman

New Member
Not necessarily, damage easily comes to the grapplers and the heavy hitters, like Rachel who can do harsh damage with her throws and strikes in general, and bass who can do the high damage in 2-3 strikes that a weaker character like Kasumi would have to achieve in 5-7. As far as defense go, Have you watched JC akira and E Mann fight at one of the tourneys? As long as you put pressure on Helena and read her accurately, she's pretty beatable.
I saw the fight. And Akira IMO is quite top tier as well, as much as I hate the character. His... What is it like 13-14 frames? His 6P+K guard break that gives a free hit is just BS haha

But anyways back to Helena. I think the part you said about correct reads, that also applies to everyone... However Helena can be one of the tougher characters to read due to the many followups she has from the BKO and also that duck can really break pressure, since a lot of characters have good mid and high pressure like Christie and Hitomi, The BKO can be really annoying to deal with if utilized correctly, especially how Excalibur Bladez uses it. Plus, JC Akira was doing a bunch of stuff he should have been getting punished for, like holding immediately upon getting stunned and so forth. If Manny hadn't got scrubbed out at the beginning, I really feel he could have taken JC down a peg. Plus he fought all the way through an extremely lenient bracket, with no Kwiggles or anything, AND a sever lack of matchup knowledge on the americans side really seemed to shoot him into first place. I'd be willing to bet money it won't happen again, however.
 

KasumiLover

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Premium Donor
It's her swift lows to me that really make hard to react to, and Helena players like to use them often to condition you to their will. And that BT reset throw she has which gives her guaranteed damage also adds to her ability. And as for their next match....I'd have to say I feel like JC will win again, match up knowledge or not, JC knew how to deal with Helena and rachel. I like Emann's immense confidence about how the next rematch will go, but I still think JC will beat him once more honestly. But then again, Emann may have a chance. I have a friend who has a very solid Akira, and although it was tough, I managed to beat him with Phase 4, who is definitely one of the worst characters in the game to use.
 

snowymoonman

New Member
I managed to beat him with Phase 4, who is definitely one of the worst characters in the game to use.
LOL, yeah Phase 4 is pretty bad, it's kind of like "Why not just use Kasumi" haha. But yeah I think JC Akira would squeak another win again Emann, but if he went against Kwiggles, Manny, or Sweet Revenge again, I really feel he'd get beat pretty hard. Sweet did the best out of anyone against JC in that tournament, and I feel if they fought again Sweet would take it. But Helena is quite abusive, which is why is still put her at top two. Her tools are just super solid, and she's far from the slowest character in the game, plus to make up for being kinda lacking in speed she has a reliable mid crush that takes like 3 frames to transition. S'messed up man. :p
 

KasumiLover

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LOL, yeah Phase 4 is pretty bad, it's kind of like "Why not just use Kasumi" haha. But yeah I think JC Akira would squeak another win again Emann, but if he went against Kwiggles, Manny, or Sweet Revenge again, I really feel he'd get beat pretty hard. Sweet did the best out of anyone against JC in that tournament, and I feel if they fought again Sweet would take it. But Helena is quite abusive, which is why is still put her at top two. Her tools are just super solid, and she's far from the slowest character in the game, plus to make up for being kinda lacking in speed she has a reliable mid crush that takes like 3 frames to transition. S'messed up man. :p
I agree entirely. I wouldn't consider her OP, but she can be top tier. She can be spaced out though I think, because she seems to lack a bit in range.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
LOL, yeah Phase 4 is pretty bad, it's kind of like "Why not just use Kasumi" haha. But yeah I think JC Akira would squeak another win again Emann, but if he went against Kwiggles, Manny, or Sweet Revenge again, I really feel he'd get beat pretty hard. Sweet did the best out of anyone against JC in that tournament, and I feel if they fought again Sweet would take it. But Helena is quite abusive, which is why is still put her at top two. Her tools are just super solid, and she's far from the slowest character in the game, plus to make up for being kinda lacking in speed she has a reliable mid crush that takes like 3 frames to transition. S'messed up man. :p
It's her swift lows to me that really make hard to react to, and Helena players like to use them often to condition you to their will. And that BT reset throw she has which gives her guaranteed damage also adds to her ability. And as for their next match....I'd have to say I feel like JC will win again, match up knowledge or not, JC knew how to deal with Helena and rachel. I like Emann's immense confidence about how the next rematch will go, but I still think JC will beat him once more honestly. But then again, Emann may have a chance. I have a friend who has a very solid Akira, and although it was tough, I managed to beat him with Phase 4, who is definitely one of the worst characters in the game to use.

To be fair, Emann and myself played JC for casuals at NEC. JC only won 5 games out of the 16 casuals we played and I hear Emann winning almost all the games when they both played. I do believe that if Emann played him again JC will probably not win them all (Unless JC is in a correct holding spree, which "can" happen as it's based on reads.) "One" hold can kill momentum that can either lead to a free wallsplat/breakable or just simply tech up ideas for pressure with also to mention that a high kick hold leads to an unholdable 43P from Akira along with a guaranteed tech if they choose to stay on the floor. The thing with people witnessing was the tournament itself. No one was there to watch before the tournament or after the tournament which is reasonable as most of the casuals are separate monitors and separate game matches. I honestly believe he knows the match up...It's the player matchup more likely. (I've even seen cases to where Emann would actually throw 466P+K on block and will even throw it from sidestepping the shoulder.) Actually, I think Emann played him only once before the tournament to analyze for his upcoming battle against him. In fact, people were expecting Terurock more since he wins the most in Japan.

However a win is a win as I was rooting for JC Akira along with Bboy, Sly, Onsen, Jaegar because Akira has never won a major tournament before. Winning with such a character is the ultimate feat of character usage while chanting for each individual juggle because Akira combos is just astounding. Is it evil to root for a character you always wanted to see win? If JC picked any other character besides Akira I am positively sure that no one will be chanting and cheering since the matches were not standard (Probably Pai, Brad, Jacky, Raidou and 1-2 others so I take that one back.). He's winning with a character you don't see often at all. Overall, it was a great match and worth the hype.
 
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KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Helena is not overpowered in my opinion. ''Overpowered'' is a big word. That means a character would be in SS tier, which is a very rare occurrence. The only character that is overpowered is probably Tengu in DOA2U. However, I do agree that Helena is standing very strong at the moment. She has evasiveness, crushes, mix-ups, multiple blenders, guaranteed setups, loads of useful unholdables and very tricky lows. I don't agree that she is OP because she lacks certain things: Damage, range and safety. Her damage is not there, especially with the damage nerf she received to 3_P4P, her range is awful which makes her very limited and predictable at longer range and being unsafe is never a good thing.
 

KasumiLover

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Premium Donor
I bet whoever dares to call Helena overpowered hasn't seen Naotora's gameplay yet. From the looks of it Naotora has amazing speed, great damage and tons of mix-ups.
I kinda want to use her now...she looks like she'll be fun, but she'll probably be unsafe and telegraphed.
 
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