Helena's needed improvements

[DrDogg]

I found out the culptrit to the reason why Helena was nerfed!! At 2:34 and ends at 2:53

;_;

 

[Doug Nguyen]

;_;

You should have a word with Jedi Robb. But on a serious note, how much influence do you have on character balancing? Could you somehow get Hayashi to understand how to get Helena back to not sucking?

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

You should have a word with Jedi Robb. But on a serious note, how much influence do you have on character balancing? Could you somehow get Hayashi to understand how to get Helena back to not sucking?

I'm sure he's tried, he's already said that he's quite proactive on telling them things that should be changed for the better and such

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I'm sure he's tried, he's already said that he's quite proactive on telling them things that should be changed for the better and such

Yeah i remember that but im wondering if anything Bryan said has actually gone through? If he is a big influence then im guessing Helena wont be so crappy in the final build.

 

[chocogerman777]

- She doesn't need PP2KP back. If they buff her damage a bit on things like 236PKP, it would have the same effect without the need to make any animation adjustments.

- The recovery on BKO and BKO Duck needs to be improved.

- Let her transition into BT without an attack or having to go into BKO first. Ayane and Brad can go into BT no problem, why can't Helena?

- Give her a BT low throw and a low throw from BKO.

- When she transitions into BKO or BT, she needs to be at advantage on block. Not huge advantage, just enough so that she can't be interrupted. Going by her DOA4 frame data, anyone with an i12 or faster 2P or mid attack will interrupt ALL of Helena's options if she enters BKO at 0. When she goes into BKO at a disadvantage, it just gets worse.

- Give her mid-kicks that are either safe or lead to something good (unholdable stun, frame advantage, etc.). In DOA4 Helena was all mid-punches. I'd hate to see that happen again...

- With P+K no longer crushing highs, BKO needs to crush just as fast as P+K did. If BKO doesn't crush instantly, it's uses become far more limited.

- BKO and BT sidesteps.

- She needs to be AT LEAST as safe as she was in DOA4... preferably more safe. She has GREAT mix-up when the opponent is stunned, but what about when you fight someone with good defense? A character should not be balanced with the assumption that top players will ever block. Just because the people in the two videos don't know how to punish (or were told not to punish?), doesn't mean other players won't take advantage of how unsafe some characters are.

Yes please!

 

[Rubedood]

She's not the only one. They need to stop singling out characters and give everyone equal attention.

 

[DrDogg]

Yeah i remember that but im wondering if anything Bryan said has actually gone through? If he is a big influence then im guessing Helena wont be so crappy in the final build.

This is Team Ninja's game. They're going to make it how they want to make it. I offer my suggestions, but that's all they are, suggestions. They've already taken some of my suggestions, but they're also getting feedback from the Japanese testers and several other parties.

I do wish Helena had better tools or could at least use the new system mechanics in DOA5 better... but I have no qualms switching up my main. Helena will still be good for pre-tournament casuals and online play.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Helena will still be good for pre-tournament casuals and online play.

...yay

 

[Conun]

You have realistic alternatives for those playstyles though. Helena players are going to have to learn a new character or gtfo.

We're mad about things we can control, not the things we can't. We're at a stage where we can get Helena fixed or at least have some light shed on her new tools.

A few frame data fixes won't kill them. It would be nice if they elaborated on Helena and why they felt the need to go to such extremes.

I understand what people are saying but people use characters as avatars for themselves , its a reason why you want these changes done so Helena will be worthy for you guys.

Bayman is no Leon as Hitomi is no Ein.

Ein was flashier and more aerobatic and Hitomi was standard karate user with nothing more than people liking her for being cute.(Ein had as much competitive players as Hitomi , if not more.)

Alternatives or not , they took the quality that I like out about the character and if they wanted to add them to Hitomi then I wouldn't have anything to argue on about.

And I will end this argument here.....Two salts don't make either situation any saltier.

I hope you guys get your wish but I am just disappointed as I was at Soul Calibur 5 and sorry that I caused anyone any misfortune.

 

[Berzerk!]

Everyone saying we're "whining" clearly doesn't know how things have been happening in the DOA community as of late. Let me help them..

I know this very well and have been aware for quite some time. I stand by my statement. This is NOT how its done. Get hands on and give feedback, or if you wish to press those that have played it for detailed info, ask THEM to compile something sensible and support it.

Reacting angrily to a video will not help any. Just taking some heat out of it. Find out what the issues are and be polite, considered, systematic and REALISTIC.

Some frame data MAY be possible to change - say, to make characters more safe, or universally to give better access to CB, or make holds more punishable.- but to say "you took out my favourite move! Put it back" is totally unreasonable. Don't forget it's Team Ninja's game and they are the ones making it.

Edit: I see Bryan has said pretty much the same thing...

 

[TRI Mike]

I haven't reacted angrily to anything that has happened with the game today. I'm simply stating that I'm very disappointed with how she turned out when compared to her DOA4 and hell, even DOA3 counterpart. I'm not asking for PP2KP to return because it's "my favorite move", it's simply because it's her main combo ender. If they removed something like for example... 33P4P I couldn't care less, but PP2KP is vital.

I'm being realistic and am willing to simply go with Jann Lee and Tina as my mains but I can't simply be quiet about this Helena bs and I'm being a little noisy because I feel there isn't much time to fix her like they did with Zack and Christie after Bryan and Erik realized they were crap in the E3 build.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

They should have already revealed every single character a long time ago. That way more time would have been available for players to submit feedback and they could be properly balanced.

Any character yet to be revealed at this point, so late in development may be fucked too. Gen Fu, Mila, Alpha-152, and Pai still haven't been seen, and the game is only a month away. That's absurd.

 

[WiZzYx]

We're doomed...

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

They should have already revealed every single character a long time ago. That way more time would have been available for players to submit feedback and they could be properly balanced.

Any character yet to be revealed at this point, so late in development may be fucked too. Gen Fu, Mila, Alpha-152, and Pai still haven't been seen, and the game is only a month away. That's absurd.

Funnily enough, I'm actually not worried about any of those characters. Pai Chan more than likely will be like Akira and Sarah, so that means, actually "good". Hasn't Genfu always been really good?, I'm not too worried about him, Alpha-152 was OP in DOA4, but low tier in DOAD, maybe she won't be totally useless or maybe she'll be worse than Helena so people can feel better about Helena LOL. and Mila...well if Rig says anything about the newcomers, she might be really good too.

EDIT: On second thought, doesn't Pai Chan have basically the same or similar fighting style as Helena? There's your real Helena right there :/(unless they decide to make Helena better because of the feedback from her.)

 

[DrDogg]

They should have already revealed every single character a long time ago. That way more time would have been available for players to submit feedback and they could be properly balanced.

Any character yet to be revealed at this point, so late in development may be fucked too. Gen Fu, Mila, Alpha-152, and Pai still haven't been seen, and the game is only a month away. That's absurd.

Just because the public hasn't seen these characters doesn't mean the tester, myself and other interested parties haven't. You really shouldn't worry about the rest of the cast. As I said earlier, Shimbori and his team will do what they desire. All we can do is offer suggestions. It doesn't really matter if the character has been seen by the public yet because even if Helena was announced a month ago, no one has really had enough time with her to offer proper suggestions aside from the people I just mentioned.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Just because the public hasn't seen these characters doesn't mean the tester, myself and other interested parties haven't. You really shouldn't worry about the rest of the cast. As I said earlier, Shimbori and his team will do what they desire. All we can do is offer suggestions. It doesn't really matter if the character has been seen by the public yet because even if Helena was announced a month ago, no one has really had enough time with her to offer proper suggestions aside from the people I just mentioned.

I actually did think of that as I posted that message, but still, I can't help but feel like if those characters had been revealed long ago and been made playable at E3, HIN, etc. that there would be a lot more players who could provide input on them.

It is what it is, I guess. As long as the character balance is still good, at least in the groups between the VF God Tier and the Lisa/Helena Bottom Tier, the game should still be a blast.

 

[TRI Mike]

If Helena had been revealed early, we might have had a better chance. It happened to Zack and especially Christie.

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

If Helena had been revealed early, we might have had a better chance. It happened to Zack and especially Christie.

Actually, I don't think so much that it happened to Zack, they said he was unfinished, unless you meant him getting safer.

 

[Paulina]

Thanks for this, Mike. For the record, I agree with and support both your and Bryan's suggestions.

Just from the two videos posted today and Mr Shimbori's statements in an interview, it became too obvious that Helena is lacking in too many important aspects of gameplay in the game.

It probably would have been a good idea to mention Bryan's -- "the author of your game's English edition guidebook" -- opinion in here as well, and how he has the entire Helena community concerned. Voicing doubts about a statement Shimbori made in sincerity might be perceived as disrespectful.

But that being said, it's done.

 

[TRI Mike]

Nah of course I didn't mean any disrespect. I personally believe that while the game isn't perfect, they've done a terrific job but I can't help but stand up and try to be heard when it regards my favorite DOA4 character.