Help on how to defend properly in DOA5

[SilverKhaos]

I personally don't feel that is true. Even the hits that do track in mid air are step-able, they are just more difficult to step, since you literally have to do it at the last second before it hits you. Aside from that, I sidestep moves into TD with Mila all the time, and it works quite well.

I do too, but I still call it BS when a person can turn in midair. And not "turned their leg", its a complete" Rotated their entire orientation on the axis". As someone who loves DOA for being the only fighter that comes anywhere NEAR actual combat, little "WTH" physics phenomenon like that irk me to no end. (thins like that, and how poking someone in the ankle can lift their entire body 4 feet in air, while completely inverting their orientation so their head is where their feet was, at the same time.)

 

[OldsmoBuick]

I personally don't feel that is true. Even the hits that do track in mid air are step-able, they are just more difficult to step, since you literally have to do it at the last second before it hits you. Aside from that, I sidestep moves into TD with Mila all the time, and it works quite well.

Mila's sidestep T is also an OH, so it crushes certain attacks anyway

 

[OldsmoBuick]

I do too, but I still call it BS when a person can turn in midair. And not "turned their leg", its a complete" Rotated their entire orientation on the axis". As someone who loves DOA for being the only fighter that comes anywhere NEAR actual combat, little "WTH" physics phenomenon like that irk me to no end. (thins like that, and how poking someone in the ankle can lift their entire body 4 feet in air, while completely inverting their orientation so their head is where their feet was, at the same time.)

It's not a sim though. Right? You have to suspend your disbelief.

 

[SilverKhaos]

It's not a sim though. Right? You have to suspend your disbelief.

True, but there's a limit. That's like saying I should suspend my belief if Luke Skywalker started breathing fire. It doesn't fit within the world's own context/rules. Its jarring and unnatural.

For the rest of the fight, its one of the most realistic fighters out there (if not THE). Then that happens.

 

[HiguraShiki]

True, but there's a limit. That's like saying I should suspend my belief if Luke Skywalker started breathing fire. It doesn't fit within the world's own context/rules. Its jarring and unnatural.

For the rest of the fight, its one of the most realistic fighters out there (if not THE). Then that happens.

It's already unnatural for Luke Skywalker to even exist in the first place because he is a Jedi Knight.
Thank god for the juggles, otherwise this will be the biggest glorified game of rock paper scissors in history.

 

[Raansu]

True, but there's a limit. That's like saying I should suspend my belief if Luke Skywalker started breathing fire. It doesn't fit within the world's own context/rules. Its jarring and unnatural.

For the rest of the fight, its one of the most realistic fighters out there (if not THE). Then that happens.

Doa isn't even close to being a sim fighter. If you want something like that then why don't you go play a boxing game or wrestling/mma game.

 

[shinryu]

I do too, but I still call it BS when a person can turn in midair. And not "turned their leg", its a complete" Rotated their entire orientation on the axis". As someone who loves DOA for being the only fighter that comes anywhere NEAR actual combat, little "WTH" physics phenomenon like that irk me to no end. (thins like that, and how poking someone in the ankle can lift their entire body 4 feet in air, while completely inverting their orientation so their head is where their feet was, at the same time.)

No offense, but FUCKING TELEPORTING NINJA says gtfo.

If this were a realistic fighter, there are two possible outcomes.

a) The ninjas kill everyone with their FUCKING SWORDS they never otherwise use.

b) Assuming swords are not permitted, Bayman and Zack and possibly Mila kill everyone else. Literally everyone else in the cast is fucked either for being tiny and/or female or practicing an utterly ineffective fighting style. Jann Lee is an edge case and Hayate might be ok if his ass suddenly reverts to being Ein again, and shout outs to Bass for being huge and maybe a factor on size alone. Other than that? Fucked.

So, pretty boring game, that one.

 

[newtype]

Hey guys, this probably sounds like a noob question, but what advice/strategy can you give me on defense in DOA5?
Specifically, I cannot react to low attacks, I usually end up getting grabbed, and when I do get grabbed I cannot seem to grab break (the normal breakable grabs).
To the better players, how did you improve your defense, and what are things I should look for when under pressure by an aggressive player?

Consider this; be smart in choosing your defensive options. For example, you probably know if you try to hold an attack and guess incorrectly and the attack connects you will receive 125% extra damage and are in stun. The opponent throws your hold(depending on the type of hold); that's 150% extra damage. When against grapplers, or people who expect you to hold, sometimes it's better to take the 125 Damage from a low stun launcher combo than to take the 300 Damage from a throw that gets you with a High Counter. Consider you're options and never throw out random standing neutral holds unless you're 80% sure you know what move will come at you.

Some normal hits, which link to strings that do not cause stun, can simply be blocked. A lot characters (whatever combo) can be blocked on the 3rd hit if the first set did not put you in stun.

If you're being put into pressure, try spacing out more. Create some distance (be careful of back dash. For some characters it doesn't cover a lot of ground and if you're hit in back dash, it counts as a stunning hit which means you'll take 125% more damage and be in stun.) Be patient. Notice if they are willing to wiff moves and attack accordingly. Also don't be afraid to block for extended period of time; what you're doing is looking for the opponent to use unsafe moves. I notice people will block 2 sets of strings from the opponent and then try to attack. Don't be afraid to just keep blocking and notice any patterns or tendencies for when they see you blocking too much and go for low attacks.

hope that helps a little.

 

[HiguraShiki]

It's helpful, but I still feel in DOA, grapplers don't have to necessarily land a grab. Like for example, Tina doesn't really need to land her grabs. She can just CB and still get 75 percent of a person's HP bar away. What makes things hard is actually the fact that some moves are just too fast to react to. That and aside from the fact that it is difficult to break grabs and impossible to break most of them. Is there any more advice you can give?

 

[dawnbringer]

It's helpful, but I still feel in DOA, grapplers don't have to necessarily land a grab. Like for example, Tina doesn't really need to land her grabs. She can just CB and still get 75 percent of a person's HP bar away.

As Tina, if you baited a hold it's a waste to not land a grab. If they are scared to hold because of that this is what makes your CB combo possible.

 

[newtype]

It's helpful, but I still feel in DOA, grapplers don't have to necessarily land a grab. Like for example, Tina doesn't really need to land her grabs. She can just CB and still get 75 percent of a person's HP bar away. What makes things hard is actually the fact that some moves are just too fast to react to. That and aside from the fact that it is difficult to break grabs and impossible to break most of them. Is there any more advice you can give?

I think that only really applies to Tina. The other grapplers still are played like grapplers, not having amazing normals but they have to work to bait out holds and be patient create openings. Tina seriously frustrates me. There should be no reason why a character can do 75%+ damage when the defending character only has 1 opportunity to escape. I don't mind Bass' highest damaging throw, because they really have to work to get it. It's slow, albeit an OH Throw, but it's balanced in that you're spaced after the throw well enough to where it's not unfair. But for Tina, they seriously need to either increase the thresh hold for her CB or lower and/or scale her air throws and ground throws. And I hate the fact that 'advanced' players don't need more than 2 tactics with Tina to completely waste someone.

Someone mentioned already, faster reactions is more of just anticipation. You need to out think your opponent. For example, when Tina is at mid to long range, she only has less than 5 options. Anticipation really depends on knowledge of what options a character has at certain ranges based on a neutral, offensive, and defensive situations. Sometimes you need to create a situation where you'll force your opponent to a move that you want or expect. This is one way you can improve your defense.

This video primarily takes about Street Fighter but James gives good points about the mentality of good defense that in principle can apply to any game.

In regards to throws, only neutral throws can be Teched. But they are their character's fastest throw. For Chain throws you need to go into training mode and play as that character and figure out the time of the throws. Put it on 'fast throw escape' and just practice completing the throw combo. Also, you should know, that you don't want to try to escape from throws when it says 'throw combo' by then you're already too late. Unless the opponent is sleeping at the wheel you probably wont tech the throw. You need to tech in anticipation of when the 'throw combo' is active for very few frames. Only way to do this and know when to push is by practicing it in training.

 

[shinryu]

I think that only really applies to Tina. The other grapplers still are played like grapplers, not having amazing normals but they have to work to bait out holds and be patient create openings. Tina seriously frustrates me. There should be no reason why a character can do 75%+ damage when the defending character only has 1 opportunity to escape. I don't mind Bass' highest damaging throw, because they really have to work to get it. It's slow, albeit an OH Throw, but it's balanced in that you're spaced after the throw well enough to where it's not unfair. But for Tina, they seriously need to either increase the thresh hold for her CB or lower and/or scale her air throws and ground throws. And I hate the fact that 'advanced' players don't need more than 2 tactics with Tina to completely waste someone.

Then, you know, you actually try playing Tina, and find out how hard it can be to get those situations going. For what it's worth, Bass's most damaging throw is exactly like Tina's in terms of speed, input, and damage. I don't know where you're getting these 75% damage combos from; environment aside, that just doesn't seem possible. The only way I can think of she could get to a one hit to CB would be connecting the last k of kk or pk only, dash up 3k, 8p, 6p+k, and that isn't very common. Maybe maybe that would work from BT k if the opponent didn't struggle, but how often does she get BT k in the open really? Her 2 hit setup is stance dependent (kp, 8p, 6p+k). Every other time there's going to be at least 3 hits from the stun and the CB and if the CB isn't holdable that basically means she had to use 8p on the third hit, very predictable. The scary thing is that she can guarantee CB from 8p so you have be ready to hold mid punch on the third hit, or maybe not and then you have to try to hold on 4th hit, or maybe not and you get thrown.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Then, you know, you actually try playing Tina, and find out how hard it can be to get those situations going. For what it's worth, Bass's most damaging throw is exactly like Tina's in terms of speed, input, and damage. I don't know where you're getting these 75% damage combos from; environment aside, that just doesn't seem possible. The only way I can think of she could get to a one hit to CB would be connecting the last k of kk or pk only, dash up 3k, 8p, 6p+k, and that isn't very common. Maybe maybe that would work from BT k if the opponent didn't struggle, but how often does she get BT k in the open really? Her 2 hit setup is stance dependent (kp, 8p, 6p+k). Every other time there's going to be at least 3 hits from the stun and the CB and if the CB isn't holdable that basically means she had to use 8p on the third hit, very predictable. The scary thing is that she can guarantee CB from 8p so you have be ready to hold mid punch on the third hit, or maybe not and then you have to try to hold on 4th hit, or maybe not and you get thrown.

Try this then. 4K, 7K, PP, CB, 9K, 6PP6K, 41236T when next to a wall. Then ground grab. That should be enough to take 75% HP. Also being that it is hard to tech roll online, the grab is nearly unavoidable.
I'm not hating on Tina. I actually like her as a character and she is one of my favorites to play. I'm just saying in terms of defense it is very hard to defend against her since most of her setups do a hell of a lot of damage.

 

[shinryu]

Try this then. 4K, 7K, PP, CB, 9K, 6PP6K, 41236T when next to a wall. Then ground grab. That should be enough to take 75% HP. Also being that it is hard to tech roll online, the grab is nearly unavoidable.
I'm not hating on Tina. I actually like her as a character and she is one of my favorites to play. I'm just saying in terms of defense it is very hard to defend against her since most of her setups do a hell of a lot of damage.

Sure, with environmental damage, that's real high damage. It's also holdable every step of the way. newtype was claiming that you could do that with only one chance to get out, and that's simply not the case. Technically I am pretty sure that the last hit of kk could give you a path to an unholdable CB from 1 hit, but good luck getting that off. I may try it just to see.

Incidentally, a better setup like that would be 4k BT 7k turn 8p 6p+k 9k, which does only give you 3 chances to hold and gives you a safe throw whiff if you decide to do that after BT 7k because of the stun type. After the 9k 6pp6k you can also just 8p, which would give you a force or pseudo force tech; however, you're giving up 30-40 damage to get that.

If you want to worry about 1 touch and then you're screwed combos may I introduce you to Bayman? 8k can give 8pp p+k 2f+p for between 90 and 110 damage (if the opponent stagger escapes it's actually worse for them) and he can use that off sidesteps or as the first hit after stun. Or he can p+k 8p or p+k p+k on the finish for a force tech.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Sure, with environmental damage, that's real high damage. It's also holdable every step of the way. newtype was claiming that you could do that with only one chance to get out, and that's simply not the case. Technically I am pretty sure that the last hit of kk could give you a path to an unholdable CB from 1 hit, but good luck getting that off. I may try it just to see.

Incidentally, a better setup like that would be 4k BT 7k turn 8p 6p+k 9k, which does only give you 3 chances to hold and gives you a safe throw whiff if you decide to do that after BT 7k because of the stun type. After the 9k 6pp6k you can also just 8p, which would give you a force or pseudo force tech; however, you're giving up 30-40 damage to get that.

If you want to worry about 1 touch and then you're screwed combos may I introduce you to Bayman? 8k can give 8pp p+k 2f+p for between 90 and 110 damage (if the opponent stagger escapes it's actually worse for them) and he can use that off sidesteps or as the first hit after stun. Or he can p+k 8p or p+k p+k on the finish for a force tech.

Sure it is holdable, I'm just saying Tina has more options to do damage than most other characters. She can bait the hold and do one of her more high damaging throws, she can do her 9K instead of the CB, or she can do 6H+K. Not many characters have options like that during.
Then again, maybe it's just that slow escaping freaking fails online.

 

[shinryu]

Well, Tina's really good, and you just described why pretty well. But she has to get that first hit in, and that's where her weakness is. That's why she needs all the options she has because she has to make the most of them when she gets the chance. I wouldn't say her stun options are all that superior, though; a few characters have 15 frame launchers and decent mid punch/kick setups as well. Or they just don't bother with stun very much at all.

Mila's weakness is her low guaranteed damage, part of which is her shitty launchers and juggles. Tina laughs at 6f+k with 33k. She's much better than Tina from neutral but it's harder to exploit a stun for sure.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

No offense, but FUCKING TELEPORTING NINJA says gtfo.

If this were a realistic fighter, there are two possible outcomes.

a) The ninjas kill everyone with their FUCKING SWORDS they never otherwise use.

b) Assuming swords are not permitted, Bayman and Zack and possibly Mila kill everyone else. Literally everyone else in the cast is fucked either for being tiny and/or female or practicing an utterly ineffective fighting style. Jann Lee is an edge case and Hayate might be ok if his ass suddenly reverts to being Ein again, and shout outs to Bass for being huge and maybe a factor on size alone. Other than that? Fucked.

So, pretty boring game, that one.

I logged in just to Like your post.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Well, Tina's really good, and you just described why pretty well. But she has to get that first hit in, and that's where her weakness is. That's why she needs all the options she has because she has to make the most of them when she gets the chance. I wouldn't say her stun options are all that superior, though; a few characters have 15 frame launchers and decent mid punch/kick setups as well. Or they just don't bother with stun very much at all.

Mila's weakness is her low guaranteed damage, part of which is her shitty launchers and juggles. Tina laughs at 6f+k with 33k. She's much better than Tina from neutral but it's harder to exploit a stun for sure.

Yea, hopefully in the future, Mila would be tweaked. As of now she is like you said, good at neutral. But she has poor options and cannot transition into different moves much like the rest of the cast.
For example, say I'm Mila and I counter hit stun you with 2H+K. From their, my best options are limited to 3KK or 3PP. Range places a huge factor on this though, since if you stunned from far, the moves are likely to whiff. You can take a risk and do 3H+K, but if it is blocked, you are pretty much screwed, or you can attempt to TD and hopefully make the most of it from there.

 

[shinryu]

This is Mila specific and can be difficult online, but you should look into 4k f+p rather than 3kk after a 2h+k or 4h+k stun. If you whiff the f+p you're actually still at advantage usually. Better yet, if you cancel the f+p you can use all the takedown cancel options or let it ride and typically you'll come out at +15, which is enough time to continue the stun with 6p or p or to input a throw or even yet another takedown. The difficulty is in ensuring the takedown cancel moves don't come out but you can kind of double tap f as in 4k f+p f f.and that seems to work. It's good tech to know.

 

[HiguraShiki]

This is Mila specific and can be difficult online, but you should look into 4k f+p rather than 3kk after a 2h+k or 4h+k stun. If you whiff the f+p you're actually still at advantage usually. Better yet, if you cancel the f+p you can use all the takedown cancel options or let it ride and typically you'll come out at +15, which is enough time to continue the stun with 6p or p or to input a throw or even yet another takedown. The difficulty is in ensuring the takedown cancel moves don't come out but you can kind of double tap f as in 4k f+p f f.and that seems to work. It's good tech to know.

What do you mean by canceling F+P? You mean 5F+P, her normal grab?