How are you playing Ein??

JAG THE GEMINI

Active Member
Nice list. I feel the same way about 6P+K. This move being so slow really hurts his whiff punish game a lot. Sometimes I just random 6P+K at long range as a zoning move and not as a whiff punisher.

Here's mine :

- 6P+K i14
- 4K i13~i14, Hits grounded, force tech roll
- 8P Add sit down stun effect on CH/HCH
- 1KK_8K -3~-4 on block
- P+K Add CB effect
- BT 1P as 1P -2 On hit, +17 On CH. So he can have a fast tracking low that won't get crushed (only by low crush moves).
- 6T Gives a consistent wall throw when the wall is behind Ein.
- 66T Add 7~10 dmg
- 46K +2~+3 on block

I agree with this in general. And were you at a tournament a few days ago which was steamed? I saw an Ein-player there and i think it was you!

6P+K being i14 again so he has a true and fast mid is the most important thing imo. But that won´t happen
as long as P+K doesn´t change into his CB... 1KK having a low variation into 1k2k or 6kk into 6k2k is very important to since Ein has problems to "open" the opponents guard. Giving more frames on block to 46K and 66T doing more damage(at least 5 points!) is essential too.




 

JayceeChris

Member
I went to an offline session in Paris last Sunday and we did a mini-tourney which was streamed on Twitch. So It was probably me yes.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
DOA5U Ver.1.04 Ein

- 6P+K - i14 Frames
- 4K - i13 Frames
- H+K - i18 Frames (How fast is it now?)
- 6KK - Added bound property. (This one has always been kinda sketchy for me. With 6K2K in the mix as well to force true pressure on standing guard... this could be a little too good... but we'll see. #Support)
- 4P - i12 Frames. Damage Increased to 21. (This may not be necessary but... yea it'd be helpful obviously. #Support)
- 8P - bound property removed on CH/HCH, added Sit down stun effect. stun frames increased to +29 (8P isn't necessarily bad as it is right now. That being said, I like it as a bound. That's just me)
- 7K - Launch height increased by 0.10m, recovery decreased by 5 frames, damage increased to 32, 45, 57, respectively.
- P+K given CB (Critical Burst) status.
- 3P, 236P, 3K - "True Mid" status. No more of this getting crushed nonsense. (236P isn't a big of a deal in my eyes for that, but 3K and 3P definitely shouldn't be crushable.)
- 1KK - Bounce height increased. (The height is pretty good actually... but the issue is the 1K. 1K pushes the opponent kinda far which results in the loss of some juggle possibilities. Try doing 8K at the launch section and you'll see that you can get more consistent juggles of the launches
- PP6PK - Added sidestep tracking.
- 4PP - NH stun increased to +17.
- 66F+P - Overall damage increased by 10.

Advantage/Safety
- PPP -4 on Block. (Eh...)
- PP(Charge)P - Reduced charge from 35 to 26 frames. Advantage reduced from +8 to +5 GB on block.
- P+K(Charge)P - Reduced charge from 36 to 25 frames. Advantage reduced from +9 to +6 GB on block.
- 4P+K - +10 GB on Block. Full charge increased to +40 GB.
- 7P - +18 GB on Block.
- 9PK - +0 GB on Block.
- 46K - +2 GB on Block.
- 3H+K - +4 GB on Block.
- 236K - +3 On Block.
- BT 4P - +10 GB on Block.
- H+KK - +2 on Block.
- BT 1P - +1 on NH.
- 1K - +2 on NH.
- 3P - +1 on NH
- 1KK -5 on Block. (GB for 0 to -2, to get him space)

New Moves
- 236H+K - Variant of BT 7K. i24 Frames, Unholdable, Mid Kick, +6 GB on Block, Tech Jump, No Tracking.
- 1K2K - DOA4 Hayate string.
- 4P2K6PK and all Hitomi variants.
Good list. I just hope overall that TN takes our ideas.
 
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Tenryuga

Well-Known Member
Just curious how do you guys go about approaching your opponent? I will find and "TORIYAH!!" anyone that says 66K or 236P.

:ein:
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Just curious how do you guys go about approaching your opponent? I will find and "TORIYAH!!" anyone that says 66K or 236P.

:ein:
Well if you're talking about getting in... most of the time I count on 1K and 4P2K. Obviously that's not very effective and the threee moves you mentioned do not create stun game or even amazing damage situations 100% of the time.

Obviously this guy needs 6p+k (14i) and 3K buffed (NH stun and lift stun on CH+ or HCH, which I'll explain in a sec. I say this because in DOA4 Ein could actually play offensve because on NH he had two quick 14i stuns (3K and 6P+K) which allowed him to initiate a deep and effective stun game. To go further, 3K's SD stun in that game gave him great options to follow up with to get the opponent into the air or extend the stun. (3K, 4K was the unslow escapable setup. If the opponent held high or mid instantly, thier fate was sealed with dash in 3P or dash in 9P (depeinding on the distance between him and the opponent before the SD stun, he could possibly get 9P without the dash in, also if the opponent held, WR K was very much a possibility.

This made 3K very deadly and worth being considered as a intiator... but as it is now, it's nothing more than a liabilty. Frankly, I think that 3K deserves to be a better kick.
  • 3K
    • NH Stun - +15 Highest SE
    • CH Stun - +15 Highest SE
    • HCH Stun - Lift Stun/Guts Stun (with unholdabe frames) + 28 Highest SE
    • In Stun - Lift Stun/Guts Stun (with unholdable frames) + 28 Highest SE
In the end this results in two things:
1. a NH starter with a better reward for stun game... even if it's stun, stun (3k), launch.
2. a 2 in 1 launcher on HCH. In other words, it works just like 4k6k for Hayate. On NH and CH, 4K6K is holdable but on HCH or in stun (which is the same stun as HCH), the move will natural combo. Same will apply to 3KK for Ein.

As for 6P+K, it needs no explanation but I was envisioning it bounding at max threshold. That's me though.

I also reopen my idea on Ein having a stance cancel for mixing up in the stun game quickly. This seems more like a DOA6 idea because Ein is actually probably going to be ok (above average) just with the simple additions we've brought up (not all of them), but with the stance addition, it'd push his offense a bit further. Just like with Jin from Tekken (or Mila's feints) the stance would simply have him crouch dash forward basically into some of his mix-ups. Yes he would avoid some highs and definitely standing throws but it'd submit him to guaranteed low throws. In stun the mix-ups would run very well though.

2P+K would be the raw transition. The transitionable moves would be 3K, 1K, P+K and H+K
  • Feint Moves
    • 2P+K~PP - High to Mid Punch string. Linear straight punch like 1K6P with a shallow stun like 66P or 4P, which is followed up by a quick swiping uppercut. This will result in a stun like either 3P or 6P.
    • 2P+K~K - Knee with a good stun. Jab and 46P available on highest SE.
    • 2P+K~2K - Sweep kick
    • [Extra] - 2P+K~P+K - Heavy Uppercut which would give him his highest launcher. Pose would be similar to Zack's 33P mixed with Ein's own 9P in a way.
    • [Extra] - 2P+K~H - Pops up from the crouch dash and does Hitomi's punch parry.
 
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ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
I'm back for a check up. after 3 months of Ein play I want players opinions on this character. I still feel like Ein needs a huge revision. To me it feels like Team Ninja didn't want to touch this character they just wanted to add him so people can stop complaining (his boring PB is proof of that). People have said Ein's fine.. I don't believe he's fine, I don't even think he's good in this game. Yeah Ein has great zoning options, but like Ayane he still has to rely on his opponent fucking up. Up close his opener options are crappy unless you're going to rely on 2p'ing your opponent to death. I want to play Ein I really do, but he needs to be better.

My wish list...

Give him a new CB and make 6P+K faster (they gave Rig a new CB in 1.03)
Juice up the damage on his OH's
Give his 46k the same range as Hayate's
Make 8P faster so we can land it on NH or make it so 8P gets SDS properties on CH
make 8K a bound
make 5p i9 (joking lol)
3K needs to be a SDS on crouching opponents
7p should sabaki high punches (well this isn't going to happen I know)
and can Ein get a few actual NEW MOVES 214K is great but seriously?

So yeah, what are your opinions guys?
 
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TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
To save you the trouble as well, I put together a list putting in the best an the worst things.
http://takedazxdoa.blogspot.com/2013/11/ein-tweet-list.html

As for your ideas:
Give him a new CB and make 6P+K faster (they gave Rig a new CB in 1.03) (Everyone agrees).
Juice up the damage on his OH's (Also agreed. 40/50/60).
Give his 46k the same range as (Not really a necessity, he's not about getting in. He's about keeping out. Frame advantage increased though... that's something I can get behind).
Make 8P faster so we can land it on NH or make it so 8P gets SDS properties on CH (If he were to get a new 18i mid punch launcher, I'd totally be behind this. Preferably one with the range and appearance of Leon's 214P I believe (don't know what the input is as I told you in the message xD) crossed with Ein's 3P. He'd remain turned forward but the thing is, it won't crush like 9P. The height would be substantial but it shouldn't over take 33K or WR K on raw damage.
make 8K a bound (8K is fine, what we need is the vanilla gravity)
make 5p i9 (joking lol)
3K needs to be a SDS on crouching opponents (an SD stun would not work. The reason why is 3KK/9K is cursed with a terrible hitbox. Hayate shares the same issue with his 9K. That being said, everytime that you'd catch a person holding low with 3K, you'd be punished by losing 3KK.

My vote was to change 3K back to it's DOA4 NH proerties so that he'd have a mid kick whiff punisher to start stun game with. That's the same as CH so +23/+15. On CH+, instead of a sit down stun, I was thinking of giving him a lift stun or guts stun (like Hayate's 6PP on NH) with unholdable frames at the beginning of the animation. This would allow for a free 3KK 2 in 1. On the flip side, he would also obtain a deeper stun on 3K allowing him to gamble and guess again with WR K, the new Mid punch launcher/9P, and 33K (which is a better mid kick launcher than 7K and 3KK). So oveall he gets a better stun game tool and a 2 in 1 launcher. Thoughts?)

7p should sabaki high punches (well this isn't going to happen I know) (It's not that I don't like this one, but given how it is right now I'm satisfied. They just need to make it to where you can get 46P at ALL times rather than just the tip).
and can Ein get a few actual NEW MOVES 214K is great but seriously? (He needs a 1P like Hitomi's, 4P2KK just to have, 1K2K/3K2K aren't necessarily needed but they'd be appreciated. The alternative would be juicing up the NH stun of the characters in his speed class. God knows that a lot of characters already have NH low openers and he needs a PP4P.)

So yeah, what are your opinions guys?
There's a lot more to fix than most of the things you brought up. You don't gotta be modest about it either. Ein is terrible in this game and that's because his moveset has not been adapted in anyway that widely benefits him (other than getting 2H+K raw in DOA4) since DOA2. He's very undeveloped by TN and it's about time that they bring him up to speed.
 
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