IGN's 12 Days of DOA5

[Jefffcore]

Jann Lee is up!

Excitement ensues!

Questions:

I'm assuming since you said he needs to reach 4 hits, he can't string his sit-downs (Or other unholdable stuns)?

How does 8k work now?

LOL Karma is definitely OP.

 

[Mesharey]

Jann Lee seems real good, I choose him from time to time in DOA4 because he has good combos.

Ah, I just wish there was a breakdown for Ayane. >.>

 

[MrMoon360]

Nothing at the level of DoA4 where the game was extremely stun heavy.

DOA4's risk/reward system was broken on account of holds in stun with ridiculous hold recovery. This among other things. Nobody liked that.

DOA5 being stun heavy doesn't seem to be your complaint.
As long as you can hit and not have to worry about counter holds, it seems that alone would suffice for you. That isn't necessarily balance, its preference.

burst is good .. its really good .. but its applications vary from character to the next .. u cant expect characters to play the same ... and some characters just simply dont need to go for the gamble, but when they do .. its high risk for high rewards.. AS IT SHOULD BE.

This.

I doubt in the final build you will be forced to play with a character requiring 4-5 hits. Play style should vary from character to character while balance remains intact. I see CB as a balance mechanism. Not the center of being effective in the game. You'll have options in character select on how you'd like to gamble for CB (if you find it advantageous), whether it'd be less or more hits in stun.

If you or anyone thinks that DOA5's tier list will revolve around CB alone, you clearly underestimate the technicality of DOA. Especially what is seemingly being brought into play this go around.

And to whom it may concern,
Gambling in DOA can be reduced, but it won't disappear.
Then its every other fighter.

We all just need to wait and see. I think TN is onto something good this time around.
Have a little faith.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

So his Dragon Gunner still goes through attacks, but it now guarantees follow up attacks. I'm all for it guaranteeing follow ups but why make it go through attacks? This move no longer requires any solid game play to use effectively, you can pretty much just throw it out. I'm all for buffing characters but don't make them brain dead. Attacks with OH properties should have limited use, his dragon gunner is simply going to be viable in too many scenario's and lead to too much damage.

Jann is gonna be frustrating as hell to fight online.

 

[Deleted member 473]

DrDogg why in the URL does it say Brad Wong breakdown, when its for Jann Lee?

 

[Rikuto]

And I care because? If he takes it as an insult then that is his problem not mine, but that fact remains that his mindset is wrong and he is asking to leave a good mechanic nerfed because he fears it. It was the same back when you could CB back to back and he had a hissy fit about it. He is AFRAID of this mechanic and is constantly in favor of making it a weaker tool. Whether he realizes it or not he simply wants a bad game. Being blunt is the only way to get a message across.

I was blunt. You were insulting. There was a difference. No one wants to listen to a point of view that is riddled with insulting pictures, that only encourages most people to challenge you further instead of taking what you said into consideration.

The purpose here is to enlighten, compete and improve. Not to insult.

You should care because your angle of approach does not work with changing his thought process, nor does it fall into line with anything we're supposed to be here to do.

 

[Raansu]

DOA4's risk/reward system was broken on account of holds in stun with ridiculous hold recovery. This among other things. Nobody liked that.

DOA5 being stun heavy doesn't seem to be your complaint.
As long as you can hit and not have to worry about counter holds, it seems that alone would suffice for you. That isn't necessarily balance, its preference.

Both are an issue and it is not a preference, it is a balance issue. The offensive player has to deal with all the defensive options before the stun and then has to worry about it even more after a successful attack. The mind games were already played before the stun, the attacker shouldn't have to continue to stress over the defenders abundant options.

I don't want to play that stun game again.

Come DoA5 release if I have to play that stun game and need 5+ hits to get max height I'm not going to want anything to do with the game. Max height and CB needing 4-5 hits is going to turn into people just baiting for sit downs and getting a short launcher. The CB will be ignored and that's a bad thing. If the CB and launch threshold stay the same then the only thing that will keep me around is if there is plenty of #-n-1's and other unholdable tools to lead into the CB. Once stunned the defender should be lucky to even have one chance to escape.

 

[Pupi18]

I'll wait until I play it to judge the game.

 

[TRI Mike]

OK that takes a weight off my mind. One of my mains is ready then. Bring it on with Jann Lee!

 

[Raansu]

I was blunt. You were insulting. There was a difference. No one wants to listen to a point of view that is riddled with insulting pictures, that only encourages most people to challenge you further instead of taking what you said into consideration.

The purpose here is to enlighten, compete and improve. Not to insult.

You should care because your angle of approach does not work with changing his thought process, nor does it fall into line with anything we're supposed to be here to do.

There is nothing further to challenge. The debate has been said and with cow the argument will just loop indefinitely because he literally doesn't read anything. He ignores whats being posted and repeats the same thing over and over. He fears the mechanics and doesn't fully understand them, simple as that and he will never change that mindset without being called out on it else he is just going to get a rude awakening when he actually plays against good players.

 

[MrMoon360]

Both are an issue and it is not a preference, it is a balance issue. The offensive player has to deal with all the defensive options before the stun and then has to worry about it even more after a successful attack. The mind games were already played before the stun, the attacker shouldn't have to continue to stress over the defenders abundant options.

The only problem with this logic is if even one playable character can CB in 2-3 hits, this is thrown off. It may be that tools are given to the character to suffice them even without effective use of CB.

Think about fast and slow striking characters. How much easier is it to read a slower, stronger character? Higher damage output and fewer hits to cause CB is then justified.

In all honesty, I just can't wait to try this game out in its final build. I want to see what Shimbori was going for in terms of balance. and character individuality. There's no way we can see this with only a handful of characters broken down in the lastest build.

Also, guessing a wrong hold in stun can lead to dire consequences in high counter damage. Will defense knowingly take this risk? If they can read your attacks coming and you're countered in stun, thats on you. Change it up (easier for faster characters e.g. Ayane). As for holds in stun, they've been in DOA. Not going anywhere. I think they can make it work.

 

[Deleted member 473]

I'll wait until I play it to judge the game.

People always judge before the game even comes out. It tears at my soul..

 

[UncleKitchener]

So his Dragon Gunner still goes through attacks, but it now guarantees follow up attacks. I'm all for it guaranteeing follow ups but why make it go through attacks? This move no longer requires any solid game play to use effectively, you can pretty much just throw it out. I'm all for buffing characters but don't make them brain dead. Attacks with OH properties should have limited use, his dragon gunner is simply going to be viable in too many scenario's and lead to too much damage.

Jann is gonna be frustrating as hell to fight online.

He was always a major cunt. You should've played him in 3.1/3.2.

 

[Pupi18]

I'll wait until I play it to judge the game. Each character play different and they have their own Advantages and Disadvantages. Will it be hard for some pick up some characters? Sure but if you practice enough you can see what works for you with each character and pretty much turn the tables. This game has stuns, cb and other tactics that you use with the tools each character has is sure to eventually find their ways around to win. People are forgetting that sometimes reading the information isn't always the same as playing which while it might not sound so good on paper for some on the execution it might make sense.

Besides DOA5 can't be worse than SF X Tekken or MVC3/UMVC3.

 

[bingsoo]

The only problem with this logic is if even one playable character can CB in 2-3 hits, this is thrown off. It may be that tools are given to the character to suffice them even without effective use of CB.

Think about fast and slow striking characters. How much easier is it to read a slower, stronger character? Higher damage output and fewer hits to cause CB is then justified.

In all honesty, I just can't wait to try this game out in its final build. I want to see what Shimbori was going for in terms of balance. and character individuality. There's no way we can see this with only a handful of characters broken down in the lastest build.

Also, guessing a wrong hold in stun can lead to dire consequences in high counter damage. Will defense knowingly take this risk? If they can read your attacks coming and you're countered in stun, thats on you. Change it up (easier for faster characters e.g. Ayane). As for holds in stun, they've been in DOA. Not going anywhere. I think they can make it work.

The theory behind this kind of balance is actually what attracted me to DoA5. I understand why people are so sensitive towards the number of hits required for a CB, but if TN does manage to pull off this kind of balance, this game will be amazing.

 

[Berzerk!]

There is nothing further to challenge. The debate has been said and with cow the argument will just loop indefinitely because he literally doesn't read anything. He ignores whats being posted and repeats the same thing over and over. He fears the mechanics and doesn't fully understand them, simple as that and he will never change that mindset without being called out on it else he is just going to get a rude awakening when he actually plays against good players.

So you admit your insults added nothing to the discussion. Rikuto has come around to a more enlightened method of sharing information, and that shows maturity and leadership.

Now it's much easier to appreciate and find the common ground, but if people communicate with negative personal insults, the message is lost. If you post in this way regardless of knowing this, you have to admit you're just doing it for your own personal reasons and not to anyone's benefit.

Let's keep it constructive, or hold off on such posts, eh?

 

[UnD34D]

Jann Lee sounds like Jann Lee from 3.1 again. My main may have already been decided for me.

 

[Jefffcore]

So his Dragon Gunner still goes through attacks, but it now guarantees follow up attacks. I'm all for it guaranteeing follow ups but why make it go through attacks? This move no longer requires any solid game play to use effectively, you can pretty much just throw it out. I'm all for buffing characters but don't make them brain dead. Attacks with OH properties should have limited use, his dragon gunner is simply going to be viable in too many scenario's and lead to too much damage.

Jann is gonna be frustrating as hell to fight online.

It sounds sick to me... I'm not seein' the problem.

If his guard breaks don't offer any guaranteed attacks it's going to be a go to.

 

[Berzerk!]

The only problem with this logic is if even one playable character can CB in 2-3 hits, this is thrown off. It may be that tools are given to the character to suffice them even without effective use of CB.

Think about fast and slow striking characters. How much easier is it to read a slower, stronger character? Higher damage output and fewer hits to cause CB is then justified.

In all honesty, I just can't wait to try this game out in its final build. I want to see what Shimbori was going for in terms of balance. and character individuality. There's no way we can see this with only a handful of characters broken down in the lastest build.

Also, guessing a wrong hold in stun can lead to dire consequences in high counter damage. Will defense knowingly take this risk? If they can read your attacks coming and you're countered in stun, thats on you. Change it up (easier for faster characters e.g. Ayane). As for holds in stun, they've been in DOA. Not going anywhere. I think they can make it work.

I think you might be forgetting that even for fast strikers the moves that cause effective stun are the slower moves and string enders.

In principle it sounds fine to say the characters should be varied and so some will have "later" access to CB than others, but the definition of "early" and "late", in order for the mechanic to be effective at all, needs to be flattened down to CB as the 3rd (most common) or 4th hit on the outside.
Never 5th, and only rarely 2nd after a slower sit down stun type attack.

You still get your variety because there's still the variation of what moves cause sit down stun, what characters have quicker launchers, their general speed and spacing game before landing any hits, etc.

But once you start hitting, you MUST be able to access CB within a short number of hits. Doesn't mean you WILL, because knowing the opponent is looking for it and can counter you, you might like to throw or launch or re-stun. Thats where character individuality and player style will win out.

Yet the FEAR for the defender of that CB must be there for it to be effective.

I think a variance of 3-4 hits is more than generous enough, and gives the defender plenty of chances.

Speaking of chances, people need to make a simple adjustment to the mindset of "defense only happens before the first hit" - in DOA, defense continues the mindgame in the first couple of small hits.

But what we're advocating is through CB and unholdable stuns, once the minimal on-hit mindgame is won, there is a big reward. Big reward means big damage, which means flashy, exciting rounds.

That makes it an exciting spectator game and rounds end a bit quicker, getting people hyped for that next round turnaround.

Yes, CB is that important. Yes, it needs to be kept tight for all characters with minimal variance.

 

[Raansu]

As for holds in stun, they've been in DOA. Not going anywhere. I think they can make it work.

Just because it was like that in the past doesn't mean it should stay that way. That kind of logic is moronic and it is the reason why doa4 and doad were so bad.

Seriously you guys are going to be the death of this franchise.