2H+K is NOT garbage ..
1) its +14 on fastest stagger escape !! and does not require counter to put the opponent in stun .. that advantage is on NORMAL HIT!
That is plainly false. It's +6 on normal hit with fastest stagger escape. It's +14 with no stagger escape at all. Considering that it's not that hard to reach fastest stagger escape, +6 is probably the best you're gonna get in most situations. If not, +10 at best against any average player that knows about stagger escapes. And it remains +6 as a counter hit and as a high counter hit. That's what sucks about it.
The fact that your post got so many thumbs up, while getting the first fact wrong... It blows my mind. Nothing personal. Anyone can make a mistake. But it shows that this community follows what they want to believe, rather than checking stuff out for themselves. I've been saying for two pages that it's +6 only, on all hit types. But now suddenly everyone believes it's +14 because mister Emperor said so. But hey, whatever... If everyone thinks I'm talking garbage it's their right to believe that. I'm gonna be the one kicking their asses.
2) theres a ton of ways to screw with someone leading to it:
- P2P2K
- 3P2P2K
- 7P2P2K
- 3P2K
- PP2K
- 2H+K
- unshu 2H+K
The stand-alone move sucks. No one is saying it's not good for mixing up. Except if you have someone who knows what he's doing, the stun of the move won't faze them. After the +6, it's basically a guessing game.
1) You can go for a mid in order to beat any lows, with the risk of being sidestepped, killing your advantage, or
2) You can go for 4KK or something to avoid the player from sidestepping, with the risk of them using a fairly fast low move that kills your advantage by crushing it.
That's not even mentioning that almost all of those mix-ups are sidestepable. If after P2P (or its variants) you use P+K, 2K, or P, a single sidestep beats all of them. Oh, all the people here forgot that little detail didn't they? Yes, DOA has sidesteps know. Try and remember that...
3) Being +14 means it combos into standing K (i12) further extending the stun game
4) this also makes its insane for landing OH
Moot point due to the move being +6 on fastest stagger escape. Although, I have been using K indeed to beat people who don't stagger escape. But obviously, if they get hit with it, they are not exactly high level players that know what they're doing.
5) with the right conditioning you bait the opponent into low hold and go for guaranteed 6P+K into guaranteed CB
That's not a property of the move itself, but a mixup. Anyone who knows Leifang's frames understands that it's simply wiser to sidestep than to try and hold low, or to simply take it and stagger escape afterwards. And if you're already stunned, any player should know that it's better to take the 2H+K since it'll shorten their stun to a mere +6 advantage, compared to more than +20 of some other moves... Unless of course you're at a sliver of health left...
Try this in training mode. Set the stagger escape on fastest, use 8P, P2P2K, and see what happens.
6) P2P2K, 3P2P2K and 3P2K beat sidestep giving the same result (3P2P particularly great vs characters with crouching SS like christie, akira, and kokoro)
That's assuming the opponent is sidestepping randomly. But it's true though, but, I don't see how this adds anything of value to our beloved 2H+K.
Which leaves you at -6 with no stagger escape and -10 at fastest stagger escape... Still not seeing the greatness here.
If anything .. 2H+K is (and always was) one of Leifangs best tools
Because people never figured out its weaknesses, plus, DOA never had sidestepping before.
Not trying to sound arrogant, but the chances that someone understands Leifang better than I do, is pretty small. Doesn't mean I know everything about her, just that I know her weaknesses better than most.
