Listing All the Best Fighters by Canon

[TLEE SAID THIS:]

I thought that it would be a fun activity if we could make a list of all the characters in order by canonical strength. When I mean by strength, I don't mean by physical power, but as in being the best fighter. Regardless of gameplay, help me make a list of all the characters from strongest to weakest. I don't know whether to add the VF characters to the list, so convince me otherwise!

1. Alpha 152
2. Ryu
3. Rachel
4. Momiji (Possibly on par with Kasumi)
5. Kasumi/Phase 4 (Possibly)
6. Raidou
7. Honoka/Salad (Possibly)
8. Hayate/Ein
9. Ayane
10. Rig
11. Lisa/La Mariposa
12. Helena
13. Gen Fu
14. Nyo-Tengu/Tengu
15. Bayman
16. Christie
17. Leon
18. Jann Lee
19. Hitomi
20. Bass
21. Leifang
22. Eliot
23. Kokoro
24. Mila
25. Tina
26. Brad Wong
27. Zack
28. Marie Rose (Possibly)

 

[Jaguar360]

Good starting list. I'll put my list and reasoning for major changes:

1. Ryu
2. Kasumi
3. Alpha-152
4. Raidou
5. Phase 4
6. Hayate
7. Ayane
8. Honoka Salad
9. Rig
10. Gen Fu
11. (Nyo)tengu
    
12. Bayman
13. Helena
14. Jahn Lee
    
15. Leon
16. Lisa
17. Hitomi
    
18. Christie
19. Bass
20. Leifang
21. Eliot
22. Tina
23. Mila
24. Kokoro
25. Zack
26. Brad Wong
27. Marie Rose

Alright, so I don't believe that Alpha-152 is the strongest. Kasumi has been able to beat her twice and Ryu is definitely the strongest character in the series. He could have taken out Alpha himself, but he wanted Kasumi to do it. I didn't move Honoka down for much reason other than that the Mugen Tenshin shinobi are all of comparable strength. Of the non-ninjas, I believe that only Rig and Gen Fu are the only ones capable of beating a tengu, so I moved Nyotengu up a bit. Bayman moved up since he's a freaking tank that's been able to take so many hits over the years. Lisa and Christie moved down a bit because I don't feel that they've proved themselves quite yet (other than the fact that Lisa fell off of a building and survived). Jahn moved up because he is pretty much obsessed with being the strongest and is the only non-ninja or Helena to win a tournament thus far.

From there, there's not too many deviations.

 

[Matt Ponton]

and is the only non-ninja or Helena to win a tournament thus far.

Gen Fu won DOA3.

 

[Jaguar360]

Gen Fu won DOA3.

Gen Fu got second after Ayane. He's higher than Jahn anyway though. ^_^

 

[TLEE SAID THIS:]

Good starting list. I'll put my list and reasoning for major changes:

1. Ryu
2. Kasumi
3. Alpha-152
4. Raidou
5. Phase 4
6. Hayate
7. Ayane
8. Honoka Salad
9. Rig
10. Gen Fu
11. (Nyo)tengu
    
12. Bayman
13. Helena
14. Jahn Lee
    
15. Leon
16. Lisa
17. Hitomi
    
18. Christie
19. Bass
20. Leifang
21. Eliot
22. Tina
23. Mila
24. Kokoro
25. Zack
26. Brad Wong
27. Marie Rose

From there, there's not too many deviations.

According to the wiki, Bayman lost to Helena in DOA4 (I believe) and she convinced him to work for her, so she should be higher than Bayman. Leon was kinda difficult to figure out because the wiki didn't state who won the fight between Leon and Jann Lee in DOA2, but I assume that Leon won and is higher because in his ending he goes to his wife's ghost and tells her that he proved himself the strongest while Jann's ending seemed more like a tantrum. I thought Alpha-152 would have been better being first since it took Kasumi, Ryu, Hayate, and Ayane collectively to beat her. Also, I put Elliot closely underneath Hitomi since he loses to her in the DOA5 tournament. Our lists are quite similar, but I don't think Brad is worse than Zack.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Gen Fu got second after Ayane. He's higher than Jahn anyway though. ^_^

Incorrect. Gen Fu got first in the tournament, Zack got second. Ayane defeated Genra, and never entered the tournament.

 

[Squizzo]

You missed Rachel and Momiji from your list. This is just going on memory (I don't exactly have a chart of who beat who at hand) of the tournament results and the kind of power characters display in cutscenes and other canon, but I think the list would go something like:
1. Ryu
2. Kasumi
3. Phase 4
4. Alpha 152
5. Raidou
6. Honoka
7. Ayane
8. Hayate
9. Rachel
10. Momiji
11. Helena
12. Jann Lee
13. Gen Fu
14. Hitomi
15. Ein
16. Christie
17. Rig
18. Bayman
19. Leon
20. Leifang
21. Eliot
22. Kokoro
23. Bass
24. Tina
25. Lisa
26. Mila
27. Brad Wong
28. Zack
29. Marie / Nyotengu (nothing to really base their canon strength on)

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Based on these facts, I believe this is the most accurate list :

Helena (DOA4), Jann Lee (DOA5), Gen Fu (DOA3) are the only non-ninja characters to ever win a tournament
Tina beats Bass thrice (DOA2, 3, 4), Bass once (DOA5)
Tina gets to the finale (DOA1)
Lei Fang beats Jann Lee once (DOA4), Jann Lee thrice (DOA2, 3, 4)
Zack beats Leon (DOA2), gets to the finale (DOA3)
Hitomi is in the top 3 (DOA3), gets to the finale (DOA5)
Rig beats Jann Lee and challenges some ninjas (DOA5)
Christie challenges both Ayane & Hayate, competes against Helena (DOA4)
Eliot beats Gen Fu (DOA4) and Christie (DOA4 & DOA5)
Bayman beats Zack (DOA5)
No real victories for Brad, Kokoro, Mila, Lisa, Leon
No data for Marie-Rose

S
Ryu, Kasumi, Ayane, Raidou, Phase 4, Alpha 152, Hayate/Ein, Momiji, Rachel, Nyotengu, Honoka

A
Gen Fu, Jann Lee, Helena, Hitomi, Rig, Zack

B
Bayman, Eliot, Christie, Tina, Lei Fang, Bass

C
Mila, Kokoro, Leon, Lisa, Brad, Marie-Rose

It's hard to say who is the weakest canon-wise because of the serious lack of data. I believe Kokoro beats Brad in DOA4, and since she was the biggest loser in the fifth tournament, so I'd say Brad is the weakest as for now.

Do people know who won between Jann Lee and Leon in DOA3 ? Tina and Lei Fang in DOA2 ? Lei Fang and Bass in DOA4 ?
It's also hard to say if Lisa is good or not, but she looks like a serious competitor for Tina (Tina's ending in DOA4).

 

[Argentus]

I'd rank it as

Strongest
Ryu (Super ninja)
Bayman (Top mercenary/hitman, keeping up with the ninjas at the very least)
Leon (Bayman's equal at least, plus lays claim to Strongest title, and wanders the assumedly Fiend infested desert by himself.)
Tengu (Demon)
Nicole (Supersoldier)
Rachel (demon hunter)
Kasumi (apparently at Hayabusa levels of potential, just without the drive he has. Please fending off her own clan for years, beating Raidou, etc.)
Phase 4 (Superclone)
Alpha (Superclone)
Omega (Supersoldier)
Raidou (Superninja)

Strong
Ayane (Stronger than Hayate, weaker than Kasumi.)
Jann Lee (Seems the strongest "normal guy" in the cast. Not a soldier or ninja or anything)
Rig (trained by Donovan, capable of fending off the ninjas, at least)
Gen Fu (Iron Fist master)
Mila (Multinational world MMA champ, according to backstory)
Ein (Superweapon)

"Standard" world class fighters.
Brad (Seems like one of those "naturally gifted" Fighters)
Christie (I think her strength actually lies in deception and assassination, not straight combat)
Zack (Guy's quirky, but still an insane fighter)
Eliot (Protege to Gen Fu, not at master level yet)
LeiFang (Very strong in her own right, but not beyond most of the others like say, Jann Lee)
Hitomi (I would say she goes down under "weakest", but she did make it to finals in DOA5)
Momiji (I don't know much about her beyond "warrior priestess apprentice to Ryu" but she doesn't seem to have the same level of skill and power as Ryu, Kasumi or Ayane)

Weakest of the roster
Helena (Knows how to fight, but more of a non-combatant)
Kokoro (Knows how to fight, but an airhead)
Bass (Huge tower of muscle, but utilizes a slow, showy style meant for entertainment over efficiency)
Tina (same as Bass)
Lisa (Same)
Hayate (Pushover)
Marie Rose (Tiny Tween with no business in the ring)


Bayman and Leon I rank high for proving to be VERY strong, on top of being trained soldiers.

Bass/Tina/Lisa are hard to categorize because in terms of sheer power and skill, I'm sure they'd be up there with the standard world class fighters (The armstrongs at least) but because their CHOSEN FIGHTING style typically requires cooperation from their opponent for the attacks to actually work, it kinda brings em down. Helena and Kokoro I list as weak also because it doesn't seem like they practice their fighting style all that much, with Kokoro being a general wandering ditz, and Helena preoccupied with management duties.

Mila, I SHOULD put down under Standard, but that whole "Multiple championship wins across the world" part of her backstory says a LOT, I can't discount that.

Hayate's a total pushover against any real fighters, we know that already.

Marie Rose would be a smear on the pavement if half the cast actually hit her, and she shouldn't have the strength to actually do her attacks against half of them, so...yeah.

 

[werewolfgold]

Hayate and Ein are the same person. Ein has all of the strength that Hayate has and vice versa. If anything, Ein is slightly gimped in comparison due to not even knowing who he is and being unable to use any ninpou due to lack of memory.

 

[Hayabusiness]

Hayate's a total pushover against any real fighters, we know that already.

I know Hayate's not as strong as the other Ninjas, but he is still stronger than most of the non-ninja part of the cast :/
Even in the pre-Dimensions timeline he has shown to be capable of inhuman feats, and when he got kidnapped:
- One time was after he was with a broken spine in a coma, after Raidou hit him with the Torn Sky Blast. Except Marty Stu Hayabusa Godhood or some Vigoorian God-related superhuman, who would be capable of not getting kidnapped in such state?=_=
- The other time was when he fought Rig, who is also a very strong opponent (surpassing the normal human fighters), and where he also was completely unprepared for it (who would've expected Project Epsilon to be revived??).

I know Hayate is a laughing stock for everyone and all, but this is getting as fun as "Who's Lisa?".

 

[Argentus]

Hayate and Ein are the same person. Ein has all of the strength that Hayate has and vice versa. If anything, Ein is slightly gimped in comparison due to not even knowing who he is and being unable to use any ninpou due to lack of memory.

I know Hayate's not as strong as the other Ninjas, but he is still stronger than most of the non-ninja part of the cast :/
Even in the pre-Dimensions timeline he has shown to be capable of inhuman feats, and when he got kidnapped:
- One time was after he was with a broken spine in a coma, after Raidou hit him with the Torn Sky Blast. Except Marty Stu Hayabusa Godhood or some Vigoorian God-related superhuman, who would be capable of not getting kidnapped in such state?=_=
- The other time was when he fought Rig, who is also a very strong opponent (surpassing the normal human fighters), and where he also was completely unprepared for it (who would've expected Project Epsilon to be revived??).

I know Hayate is a laughing stock for everyone and all, but this is getting as fun as "Who's Lisa?".

I'm pretty sure he's a goddamn terrible fighter overall, which is why they just said fuck it and taught him basic Karate when he was brainwashed as Ein lol.



Hayate is the Zoidberg of DOA.

 

[werewolfgold]

I'm pretty sure he's a goddamn terrible fighter overall, which is why they just said fuck it and taught him basic Karate when he was brainwashed as Ein lol.

But...you're wrong and there is plenty of story and canon evidence of his feats otherwise. You can feel free to stick your fingers in your ears and be all LALALALALANOTLISTENING if you want, but that only makes you look bad.

 

[Argentus]

But...you're wrong and there is plenty of story and canon evidence of his feats otherwise. You can feel free to stick your fingers in your ears and be all LALALALALANOTLISTENING if you want, but that only makes you look bad.

he's stiiiiillll a bitch lol.
Gets his clan killed in droves on pointless missions, is a lesser fighter than Ayane or Kasumi, is pointedly stupid and gets himself in trouble repeatedly by going all Leeroy Jenkins.

I mean, exactly what "canon evidence" are you talking about? His DOA4 ending where he kills some soldiers? that's about all I can think of.

At the very least, I'd still say that Ein is a stronger fighter than Hayate (Maybe not as SKILLED, but still a stronger fighter). There is a very visible difference between the two personas.

He had to team up with Ayane to take on a kasumi clone, and got his ass ROYALLY handed to him by Raidou (Hell, even Ayane fared better) and from what little we saw of him fighting, he wasn't very skilled back then either.

It generally just comes across that he fares better and is more suited to fighting as Ein, while as Hayate, he's constantly biting off more than he can chew.

I'd put him on par with the "standard" fighters at best, but he's not "above" them like the rest of the ninjas, not to me.

 

[werewolfgold]

he's stiiiiillll a bitch lol.
Gets his clan killed in droves on pointless missions, is a lesser fighter than Ayane or Kasumi, is pointedly stupid and gets himself in trouble repeatedly by going all Leeroy Jenkins.

You mean missions like chasing after Kasumi? Those missions were going to happen even if Hayate wasn't in charge. Where exactly is he getting his clan killed in droves? Hell, what other missions do we know about?

"Ein" beat Kasumi in DOA2 canonically (my contention is that Ein and Hayate are the same). Ayane even has trouble beating Kasumi. Hayate has clearly beaten several other characters in the game, like Hitomi (whom he's clearly not going to go all out against). Also, Hayate is not the only character to get captured or do something stupid, even amongst the ninjas. Hell, Ryu does stupid ish all the time in NG.

There is a very visible difference between the two personas.

They speak using different forms of Japanese and wear different clothes. Personality wise, they're both about equally as arrogant.

He had to team up with Ayane to take on a kasumi clone, and got his ass ROYALLY handed to him by Raidou (Hell, even Ayane fared better)

Debatable. Him fighting with Ayane doesn't exactly mean he wasn't stronger than the clone. But, cutting off all means of escape by having someone else would've been more beneficial. Also debatable that the other ninjas wouldn't have lost out in a DBZ beam struggle as well. Kasumi only won the beam struggle against Raidou because Ryu stepped in.

I'd put him on par with the "standard" fighters at best, but he's not "above" them like the rest of the ninjas, not to me.

But, you didn't. You put him next to last above Marie Rose. I'm not arguing that he's the strongest character in the game or anything. Clearly, he's not. I'm saying that Ein and Hayate are the same strength wise with Hayate having the added ability to actually blow stuff up and at the very least with destructive power on par with the other ninjas in the game.

 

[Hayabusiness]

I mean, exactly what "canon evidence" are you talking about? His DOA4 ending where he kills some soldiers? that's about all I can think of.

Gameplay for example. He still can teleport around, and that's pretty inhuman.
He was able to pick up karate perfectly in one year or something after being destroyed mentally by Project Epsilon, he is still able to rival Kasumi because he has more control over his emotions (and she's one of the strongest characters!!),
But no! He's still a bitch... because you say so. You even try to make Raidou seem weak as fuq to justify your words, when Raidou is incredibly strong, probably able to wipe out most of the cast, and in the Dimensions canon he was only defeated by Kasumi with the help of Ryu.

I think many agree Hayate is the weakest of the Ninjas (and not all do, Ayane is put behind him a lot)... but weaker than the normal human cast?? Those are negative bias you have towards the ninjas and it's showing. Let's be honest here... Team Ninja and probably Itagaki too would've made him win at least against a good chunk of the cast.
I'm not saying this because I love Hayate (he is okay/cute, and I too can joke about his luck in the story), but because I'm trying to follow up both canon and what the creators have told us about these characters.
I bet that if Ayane, Kasumi and Ryu didn't have plenty canon events backing up their strength you'd still be saying they're cheaters, that they'd get crushed by other characters, etc, because they scum it out with ninpo or something...

And no, I am not biased towards the Ninjas, because they DO have a "Mishima complex" with the story and with their powers.

 

[Argentus]

Gameplay for example. He still can teleport around, and that's pretty inhuman.
He was able to pick up karate perfectly in one year or something after being destroyed mentally by Project Epsilon, he is still able to rival Kasumi because he has more control over his emotions (and she's one of the strongest characters!!),
But no! He's still a bitch... because you say so. You even try to make Raidou seem weak as fuq to justify your words, when Raidou is incredibly strong, probably able to wipe out most of the cast, and in the Dimensions canon he was only defeated by Kasumi with the help of Ryu.

I think many agree Hayate is the weakest of the Ninjas (and not all do, Ayane is put behind him a lot)... but weaker than the normal human cast?? Those are negative bias you have towards the ninjas and it's showing. Let's be honest here... Team Ninja and probably Itagaki too would've made him win at least against a good chunk of the cast.
I'm not saying this because I love Hayate (he is okay/cute, and I too can joke about his luck in the story), but because I'm trying to follow up both canon and what the creators have told us about these characters.
I bet that if Ayane, Kasumi and Ryu didn't have plenty canon events backing up their strength you'd still be saying they're cheaters, that they'd get crushed by other characters, etc, because they scum it out with ninpo or something...

And no, I am not biased towards the Ninjas, because they DO have a "Mishima complex" with the story and with their powers.

Okay....honestly this is getting old.


I'm just making fun of Hayate as a joke, and yall are taking this way too seriously.

His role in the story is to be a bit of a jobber, and in DOA, there's nothing to say he's any better than the rest of the cast, other than people just saying "ninja = win". Which is bullshit and I won't accept that cop out of a response, especially since half the point of the Ninja Gaiden games is you, the ninjas can get absolutely slaughtered in seconds if you ever get hit, by even the most basic of enemies.

And on the "he can do inhuman feats" well so can the entire DOA cast. Its nothing special. In DOA everyone is presented as roughly equal. The "stronger" fighters can go toe to toe with all the ninjas, even Ryu apparently (Christie, Jan Lee, Rig, etc). These are, after all, all the top fighters in the WORLD. The doa roster isn't average folk, either, keep that in mind.

Its not that I'm saying the ninjas are weak, its that I'm saying the rest of the cast is strong, too, and there's some overlap.



Also, this got me wondering why Ryu doesnt have his Flying Swallow as a move in DOA....