GentlemanThief
New Member
I found and posted about this the day the game came out!
Somewhat, but not really salty...
Somewhat, but not really salty...
New DOA5 Backdash
- Thread starter Codemaster92163
- Start date
TheOtherJN
New Member
I almost found out about it on the second day with the game, but it was instead a more useless variant or a different variant.
Are these useful?
EDIT: Nevermind, it's a less refined version of what was shown in the HitBox video.
or
I think 214 is useful to just dodge the opponent's max range attack.
Are these useful?
EDIT: Nevermind, it's a less refined version of what was shown in the HitBox video.or
vicious1024
New Member
I actually found this out when I bought the game, using Mila. You can easily do it on all gaming peripherals -- I've been doing it on pad.
It's the same as doing a Korean Backdash in Tekken, minus the neutral input. Simply, and transition between and repeatedly (make sure you're blocking, and not walking back). If you accidentally input , you'll end up doing a backdash when you hit again.
Inputs should look like:. Starting with a backdash:
It's the same as doing a Korean Backdash in Tekken, minus the neutral input. Simply
, and transition between and repeatedly (make sure you're blocking, and not walking back). If you accidentally input , you'll end up doing a backdash when you hit again.Inputs should look like:
. Starting with a backdash: The way I see it, if TN are sensible, they'd not only keep this in, but also give this ability to all the characters, while changing the input to something a bit less braindead. Keep in mind that other similar exploits in other 3D games like KBD and WDC in VF and Tekken were kept in because they added a new layer to the existing game. I'd be extremely disappointed if they remove this entirely.
Sora
Member
This method is VERY possible on pad and stick. It was just easier to illustrate on an HB.
Keep in mind that this is probably not designed for. Up until 5, Ayane has been the queen of backdashing and movement and I don't think they intended to change that with a... glitchy-esque animation look. As far as the devs are concerned, it doesn't 'look' good for the game (they have a casual fanbase to worry about as well).
Keep in mind that this is probably not designed for. Up until 5, Ayane has been the queen of backdashing and movement and I don't think they intended to change that with a... glitchy-esque animation look. As far as the devs are concerned, it doesn't 'look' good for the game (they have a casual fanbase to worry about as well).
MajesticBlue
Active Member
I got a chance to talk with Code, since it is a teleport when done fast enough we like the name flash step. Or flash stepping.
Yeah, GentlemanThief I heard you were already using it at tournaments and stuff. Did it give you a big advantage at all? Were any of the matches saved? I would really like to see it at work in a tournament setting.
Yeah, GentlemanThief I heard you were already using it at tournaments and stuff. Did it give you a big advantage at all? Were any of the matches saved? I would really like to see it at work in a tournament setting.
Sora
Member
MajesticBlue
Active Member
There is a.... flash step... in bleach......really? *sigh*
JohnGrimm
New Member
And it is literally the exact same thing visually as Rapid Step, short range teleports to move quickly. It fits, but avoiding Bleach was a priority.
BierKlauMeister
Active Member
This method is VERY possible on pad and stick. It was just easier to illustrate on an HB.
Keep in mind that this is probably not designed for. Up until 5, Ayane has been the queen of backdashing and movement and I don't think they intended to change that with a... glitchy-esque animation look. As far as the devs are concerned, it doesn't 'look' good for the game (they have a casual fanbase to worry about as well).
Casuals already bought their game or didnt, all they should care about now is making or at least keeping the game as high level fríendly as possible. Advanced movement is a great way to do that, it doesnt matter if it wasintended ornot. Who knows, maybe this"fuck up" will end up saving their game from a high level competitive stand point, kind of like what wave dashing and l cancelling did for melee
HiiDOOM
New Member
I may be alone on this, but I don't like it. This is precisely one of the things that makes Tekken my least favorite fighter. Basic character movement should always be intuitive imo, it shouldn't require hours of practice to simply move your character a few paces back in the most optimal way. If the community as a whole feels the strategic value of being able to retreat that quickly enriches the game, the devs should instead look into the speed of the natural backstep and consider speeding that up instead. That way we can keep the tactical advantage of the rapid step (whatever you want to call it) while not having our characters look like they're having a seizure.
Obviously this solution isn't going to happen to Tekken. It's too much a part of that game at this point (look at what happened w/ Brawl). Seeing as this is new in DOA, however, I think it's a fair idea to simply revise the back dash instead. Seeing as only a handful of characters can currently do this is troubling as well.
Obviously this solution isn't going to happen to Tekken. It's too much a part of that game at this point (look at what happened w/ Brawl). Seeing as this is new in DOA, however, I think it's a fair idea to simply revise the back dash instead. Seeing as only a handful of characters can currently do this is troubling as well.
JohnGrimm
New Member
Here's the thing, the characters that benefit from it were already fast characters to begin with. In fact, they are the intentionally fast characters who were already able to cover ground quickly, as proven by their far reaching steps that allow them to even utilize Rapid Step in the first place. Taking out Rapid Step isn't going to make Sarah and Pai suddenly not two of the fastest characters in the game.
In addition to that, the characters who can't use Rapid Step STILL have access to the universal movement options like crouch dashing, KBD, and so on, and they're still very solid options. Bass for example has absolutely the worst Rapid Step in the game, he goes nowhere even if you're mashing at 60 inputs a second, however he does have a damn good crouch dash that gives him great forward mobility considering his huge lumbering ass. I think even Pai's crouch dash isn't MUCH faster than Bass'. it's just her Rapid Step that makes him look like a rock, but he's SUPPOSED to be the rock comparatively anyways.
Also, I'd just like to say that as far as the inputs go, Rapid Step is like the easiest execution movement option in the game. I'd much rather mash 414141414141414 than 144144144144 or 623662366236.
HiiDOOM
New Member
Comparatively speaking it will. Perhaps I am working under a lack of information, as I don't know how fast Rapid Step will be used in common practice and am only going off the information shown in the hitbox video. That notation does not seem very difficult (as you pointed out) so I assume similar speeds are achievable via stick or pad. If that is the case, rapid step characters are much better at controlling space than they were meant to be able to by design.
Is Sarah a very fast character? Certainly, I think we can all agree to that. W/ rapid step, however, it's not just sheer speed but the ability to manipulate space between you and the opponent that is the strength of the tech (which interestingly, has always been Ayane's focus in DOA). This was demonstrated by Pai being able to completely evacuate from Christies 6p string in the hitbox video. Pai is fast yes, but I don't believe that level of space control was intentional. That certainly makes them much stronger characters than they would be without the rapid step. You will see this effect compounded even more in matchups w/ characters that lack good distant covering options (Helena).
Potential game mechanic upsets aside, my other primary dispute w/ rapid step is how awful it looks. I stand by the statement that if the community wants characters to have this level of retreat ability I'd much rather the devs speed up the natural backstep. From a design perspective this makes much more sense to me, and keeps your game from looking like an epileptic mess, one of the few things DOA has always had a hallmark of (it's fluid animation).
BierKlauMeister
Active Member
Gameplay >>>>>> looks. I love that some characters can move this way, and for some others its useless, that, just like all other char specific tools, keep the game from becoming too universal. Just like kbd in tekken with back sway and non back sway chars... Ok Not the same thing cuz in tekken the difference is in the input method but.... The thing is this kind of movement options ALWAYS add a ton of depth to the game, and if was achieved by a mistake, or if it looks awful, i honestly dont guve a fuck. Its there and it helps the game at a competitive level, so thats great!!!
HiiDOOM, I don't think you should let your bias and your dislike of Tekken turn you off from this. Also, you should actually try playing with these characters while using this tool. You won't be creating as much space as in the hit-box (no offense to Hit-box developers, but it's just a keyboard with with sanwa button on).
Don't try to ruin this for us, it's what I'm saying.
He still has a massive hit-box though. The point in playing Bass is getting close as soon as possible rather than creating space between you and your opponent. If you try KBC with Bass and record a few string with the AI, you'd notice that he still gets hit with the majority of the moves in this game because his bounding box is so big.
Don't try to ruin this for us, it's what I'm saying.
He still has a massive hit-box though. The point in playing Bass is getting close as soon as possible rather than creating space between you and your opponent. If you try KBC with Bass and record a few string with the AI, you'd notice that he still gets hit with the majority of the moves in this game because his bounding box is so big.
JohnGrimm
New Member
Crouch dashing is a forward moving option, similar to Tekken wave/crouch/Mishima dashing. My point was really just that it doesn't matter if Bass can't Rapid Step, he still has great movement options without it, at least for getting in. He's not going to be neutered because he can't Rapid Step, he just uses other movement options that benefit him more.
HiiDOOM
New Member
Currently it's too soon to know if this tech will help or hinder the competitive level of the game. If it turns out this tech is so strong that it becomes a necessity to pick a Rapid Step character you will end up w/ a game like Mahvel 2, where you will only see a handful of characters in competitive play. IMO this would be a death knell for DOA5, as I don't believe it has enough hype/crazyness/tech to be boiled down to 4 or 5 characters and survive. If it turns out Rapid Step isn't as crazy as it looks in the hitbox video and ends up being just more tech for the game I'm all for it.
To address your first point, I'd like to assert that gameplay and looks do not have to be mutually exclusive from one another in order to offer depth. I'd argue that it's not the notation (dexterity skills) but the strategic value (cognitive skills) that determine the type of depth I enjoy in fighters (as it is for many others). Under this train of thinking, I'd wager the reason you like the discovery of Rapid Step is that it affords you more options in the fight (more options = more depth), if that is the case why not simply speed up the back dash to allow you these same strategic options?Thereby allowing you to do what the Rapid Step is allowing while maintaing the fluid gameplay and intuitive controls already present. If instead you simply like the added work around of inputing more notations, or enjoy the look of the glitchy animations, than I got nothing for you.
I actually like Tekken quite a lot. It's just my least favorite among 3D fighters. Tag2 especially, is one of the most all-around robust fighters of this generation IMO. I'm not exactly sure what I'm ruining by offering reasonable thoughts on the discovery. I'm not even calling for it's removal in terms of the options it presents, I like depth too! I just don't care for the method and think there are better ways of achieving the same effect (if it turns out to a be positive thing). Also, who are the 'us' you are speaking of?
MajesticBlue
Active Member
The way I see it is it is just another tool to use. It's kinda is like in Tekken. You can tell who the good players are by the way they move. It also helps seperate the boundary between people who know what they are doing and those that don't. I admit it kinda sucks that less then a quarter the cast can do it.
There are already big gaps in the tiers as far as I can tell. Whoever finds something broken first wins anyways. So it may be months before we know the actual tiers. It is kinda interesting that the better characters have this movement. Even without this or future stuff I could see how more then half the cast is not viable anyways.
There are already big gaps in the tiers as far as I can tell. Whoever finds something broken first wins anyways. So it may be months before we know the actual tiers. It is kinda interesting that the better characters have this movement. Even without this or future stuff I could see how more then half the cast is not viable anyways.
I'm aware of WD in this game. My point was just that he can't benefit as much from anything but WDing in the game. It would've been nice if he actually had good defensive options. Now, if Rapid Back Dash actually has fuzzy guard properties, then that would still be beneficial.