Chapstick
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Characters Nyotengu changes/gameplay discussion
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Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
Something weird is happening! Atm, I am playing survival (legend) facing nyotengu - she is just standing there charging her wind-gust. I waited, still charaging. I moved in, still charging Is this a bug? (Something similar happens with Ein where he does a barrage of low holds about 3-5 consecutive ones) Has anyone else had something like this happen (regardless of character)?
Kris Emery
Active Member
hey guys what are some good strategic ways to play faster characters? I often feel choppy when im playing faster characters? i must admit P+K gets me out of a lot of tight situations when i time it right!
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
Play slower! Most think you have to play faster to beat a faster character! I've proven this false playing a fast character slowly (against anybody) and won! AAMOF, I tell new players to slow down and I've noticed a significant improvement! (I don't mean by "labbing it up" either)
I promise you it works! If you can mentally slow your opponent down by slowing yourself down in the same manner, you will gain momentum - maybe not get a win - but slowing someone down is just as much of an accomplishment! I get alot of criticism for playing Alpha slowly because she was not "designed" to do that. I noted in another thread that there is nothing wrong with going against the grain - especially if it works.
Even against Nyotengu where Alpha has the obvious speed advantage, I know when and when not to utilize it. (Besides, when you're gonna run into obvious counter-whores, you better slow the hell down!)
Codemaster92163
Well-Known Member
So, concerning Nyo's new 
___ string...
If you haven't seen it, it's basically into , and unless they changed the properties on , it's going to be a rather crappy addition. Here's why:
The other followup to is already a mid kick. There will be no mixup involved at all, so we're not really gaining much.
The bound from is pretty blah. You get limited options due to the forced Hiten transition, and there's a lot of better mid kicks to use.
The GB from it isn't that great either. Unless you're at a wall where you can capitalize on the frames to have a quick Hiten beat out most everything (which, still is easily beaten out by any crush), it's not going to be that great to use on block either.
So, it won't be that effective on block or hit assuming the properties remain the same, offers no new additional mixup, and is really a lackluster addition (unless, again, they've changed some of the properties of it, in which case it might be decent).
Still, you're probably better off avoiding the new string just as most people avoid the current one as well.
___ string...If you haven't seen it, it's basically
into , and unless they changed the properties on , it's going to be a rather crappy addition. Here's why:The other followup to
is already a mid kick. There will be no mixup involved at all, so we're not really gaining much.The bound from
is pretty blah. You get limited options due to the forced Hiten transition, and there's a lot of better mid kicks to use.The GB from it isn't that great either. Unless you're at a wall where you can capitalize on the frames to have a quick Hiten
beat out most everything (which, still is easily beaten out by any crush), it's not going to be that great to use on block either.So, it won't be that effective on block or hit assuming the properties remain the same, offers no new additional mixup, and is really a lackluster addition (unless, again, they've changed some of the properties of it, in which case it might be decent).
Still, you're probably better off avoiding the new string just as most people avoid the current one as well.
Codemaster92163
Well-Known Member
That very well could be the case, reminiscent of DOAD's recovery fram glitch which looked just like this.
If it were a glitch... doesn't that mean the guy actually had to press to... well get a ?
Pretty sure he was just mashing... ... so I think that replaces her current
Looks pretty quirky though...imo the current + as string ender might look better (with a input or something... should obviously do something with the second s hit properties in that case)
I'm all for more Hiten transitions, but less crappy transitions would be nice XD
Oh.. pretty old but... about the Hit/Hurtbox discussion: Don't think it has anything to do with hit/hurtboxes, seems she simply stays 1 frame longer in guard stun on some moves than the rest of the cast.
Also happens for some moves with fairly low range and a pretty small chance to connect at a later impact frame (like Momiji's hitting with the second impact frame requires tip-tip-tip range...) and the hitstun is not affected either. Well and the Ayane example given only has two active frames, so you should not be able to produce a 3 frame range (0~+2) across different chars anyway, no?
to... well get a ?Pretty sure he was just mashing
... ... so I think that replaces her current Looks pretty quirky though...imo the current
+ as string ender might look better (with a input or something... should obviously do something with the second s hit properties in that case)I'm all for more Hiten transitions, but less crappy transitions would be nice XD
Oh.. pretty old but... about the Hit/Hurtbox discussion: Don't think it has anything to do with hit/hurtboxes, seems she simply stays 1 frame longer in guard stun on some moves than the rest of the cast.
Also happens for some moves with fairly low range and a pretty small chance to connect at a later impact frame (like Momiji's
hitting with the second impact frame requires tip-tip-tip range...) and the hitstun is not affected either. Well and the Ayane example given only has two active frames, so you should not be able to produce a 3 frame range (0~+2) across different chars anyway, no?
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Darth Lotonic X
Active Member
I did some experimentation with 6P+KP. On block, the frame data in-game says that it's +14, but it's actually only +3.
My process:
AI set to Block, then High Punch:
Tengu's P+K(i11) beats Kasumi's P(i9)
Tengu's P(i14) loses to Kasumi's P(i9)
This put the + frames between 2 and 4
AI set to block, then Mid Punch:
Tengu's 6P(i15) beats Kasumi's 3P(i13)
Tengu's 3P(i16) trades with Kasumi's 3P(i13)
There's your +3.
My process:
AI set to Block, then High Punch:
Tengu's P+K(i11) beats Kasumi's P(i9)
Tengu's P(i14) loses to Kasumi's P(i9)
This put the + frames between 2 and 4
AI set to block, then Mid Punch:
Tengu's 6P(i15) beats Kasumi's 3P(i13)
Tengu's 3P(i16) trades with Kasumi's 3P(i13)
There's your +3.
I think in this case it takes into consideration the fact that you can transition into Hiten from the second P. I think testing it against the Hiten transitions would help gauging this better, otherwise the frame data toolkit would not have started counting from the beginning of the flight and instead just given you the +3 instead.
Darth Lotonic X
Active Member
I tested the Hiten transition. I didn't do it thoroughly enough to give a number, but I can guarantee you that it's negative enough for this transition to be worthless.
+14 is supposed to be the advantage for moves from the Karasu-Tobi flap (just like e.g Ninpo Cancels...) even tho the stance is transient (it's not that surprising that replacing a 39F recovery with a 41F flap, does not magically leave you with 9 additional frames of advantage)
Of course that is not really useful in that case since you can only throw (which whiffs... the standing throw at least), or cancel into Hiten, which consumes some additional frames and leaves you at disadvantage. It's -2 or something, so not as bad frame data tells you (-11... too lazy to explain), still useless since Hiten's Hitbox is too high and is already too slow.
Not sure if +14 is correct either: doing a T leaves you at -15. Subtract the throws duration and you should have been at... erm... +17 (also latest cancel I got leaves you at +7, but the throw still misses having 5(3)24 and it leaves you at -22)
Of course that is not really useful in that case since you can only throw (which whiffs... the standing throw at least), or cancel into Hiten, which consumes some additional frames and leaves you at disadvantage. It's -2 or something, so not as bad frame data tells you (-11... too lazy to explain), still useless since Hiten
's Hitbox is too high and is already too slow.Not sure if +14 is correct either: doing a T leaves you at -15. Subtract the throws duration and you should have been at... erm... +17 (also latest cancel I got leaves you at +7, but the throw still misses having 5(3)24 and it leaves you at -22)
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Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
Pictured Mind
Well-Known Member
Nah, Nyo does range better.
Codemaster92163
Well-Known Member
So, what do you guys think about 8PPP no longer wall splatting? I'm sort of indifferent to it, if only because its removal changes a small part of my wall game. That said, I'll probably get more damage with it than the old mixup I used, plus it'll be great that we won't have to guess if we're close enough to the wall for a splat or not.
I'm definitely okay with it. I fuck up with that a lot because of Bankotsubo... I hated that nerf, and more damage is always nice. It's the buff everyone wanted, and it's the buff everyone got.
Codemaster92163
Well-Known Member
Ah, so it is. Been a while since I played, and at first glance it just looked like 8PPP (that, and I'm so used to seeing 8PPP used as the go-to followup for that throw).
AsheMann21
Well-Known Member
I heard Nyotengu got a new string. Is this correct?