I posted a Tina specific thread on this, but I think it's an interesting enough subject for general discussion, so I'd like to ask: how best to play the okizeme game in doa5? It's very different from Tekken and sort of similar to VF, but I have a lot more hard info on how to make things work in VF I don't really have for this game. So:
Vs Hard Knockdown: Rising kicks seem like a terrible idea in this game. In VF one had to set up certain knockdowns to force linear rising kicks, which could then be evaded or crushed more easily. In this game, it looks like holds on reaction do that job regardless. In particular, it seems like the grapplers are well set up to take advantage of this: Tina, Bayman, and Bass all have advanced mid kick holds, with Tina's in particular leading to a nasty situation. Bayman of course has the advanced low kick hold as well. Leifang can do the same thing, and Mila also can play this game pretty well (as her mid kick hold gets her into mount and I think that her low kick hold is the one that guarantees side control, though it might be the one that gives a bounce combo, not sure). So is this generally the optimal response? Low kicks are additionally crushable but mid kicks aren't and that may be more advantageous for some characters. Also, I don't know if the frames on block for either kick make them safe or not, but for a grappler it may not even be worth going for the low counter but going for the low throw.
Given this, and absent special wakeup attacks, it seems like a good player is usually going to want to just get up safely with pressing G, so: how much frame advantage do you have vs. the wakeup? Does it matter how they get up? I know there's a brief invincibility window, but I assume if you time your active frames to hit as it ends you effectively can land whatever you want, so I suppose the question is then how long that window is?
Vs Tech Roll: Basically the same question as above. This is going to be tech specific in many cases (e.g. Tina's actually at something like -15 if you tech after a Shining Wizard), but generally assuming you have advantage after a teched knockdown is it the same basic situation as a standard wakeup from hard knockdown? I've seen some odd things against some techs where it almost looks like you can arrange to suck opponents into some moves (I managed to vaccuum the CPU into a Tina 8f+p on a tech roll and it was bizarre looking; didn't mean to do it); is that more of a lucky/glitchy thing or are there setups?
Finally, in general, are the unholdable setups from forced techs gone? I didn't play Doa4 long enough to care about those. If they're still an option in this game it's worth knowing about. I haven't found anything myself, for what it's worth. But some people know the engine way better than I do obviously.
Vs Hard Knockdown: Rising kicks seem like a terrible idea in this game. In VF one had to set up certain knockdowns to force linear rising kicks, which could then be evaded or crushed more easily. In this game, it looks like holds on reaction do that job regardless. In particular, it seems like the grapplers are well set up to take advantage of this: Tina, Bayman, and Bass all have advanced mid kick holds, with Tina's in particular leading to a nasty situation. Bayman of course has the advanced low kick hold as well. Leifang can do the same thing, and Mila also can play this game pretty well (as her mid kick hold gets her into mount and I think that her low kick hold is the one that guarantees side control, though it might be the one that gives a bounce combo, not sure). So is this generally the optimal response? Low kicks are additionally crushable but mid kicks aren't and that may be more advantageous for some characters. Also, I don't know if the frames on block for either kick make them safe or not, but for a grappler it may not even be worth going for the low counter but going for the low throw.
Given this, and absent special wakeup attacks, it seems like a good player is usually going to want to just get up safely with pressing G, so: how much frame advantage do you have vs. the wakeup? Does it matter how they get up? I know there's a brief invincibility window, but I assume if you time your active frames to hit as it ends you effectively can land whatever you want, so I suppose the question is then how long that window is?
Vs Tech Roll: Basically the same question as above. This is going to be tech specific in many cases (e.g. Tina's actually at something like -15 if you tech after a Shining Wizard), but generally assuming you have advantage after a teched knockdown is it the same basic situation as a standard wakeup from hard knockdown? I've seen some odd things against some techs where it almost looks like you can arrange to suck opponents into some moves (I managed to vaccuum the CPU into a Tina 8f+p on a tech roll and it was bizarre looking; didn't mean to do it); is that more of a lucky/glitchy thing or are there setups?
Finally, in general, are the unholdable setups from forced techs gone? I didn't play Doa4 long enough to care about those. If they're still an option in this game it's worth knowing about. I haven't found anything myself, for what it's worth. But some people know the engine way better than I do obviously.
