Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure you are being sarcastically funny.
Theory fighter is fun ain't it.
The things that come from a landed PB was never in question.
Power Blow
- Thread starter DoctorForHire
- Start date
I am pretty sure you are being sarcastically funny.
Theory fighter is fun ain't it.
The things that come from a landed PB was never in question.
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
- No, but I am bored, and a little tired.
- Yes, it is. It's usually how people get better. Trying and not succeeding is better than not trying : P
- Missed the point. If you can do that, why not try and use it? Everyone's so negative.
PB's are obviously risky. There's been nothing good said about them at all, I felt the need to change the direction.... 'Course people are more interested in being condescending then contributing to the discussion... It's a forum and we're talking about a game that hasn't come out yet, this is all "theory fighter".
- Yes, it is. It's usually how people get better. Trying and not succeeding is better than not trying : P
- Missed the point. If you can do that, why not try and use it? Everyone's so negative.
PB's are obviously risky. There's been nothing good said about them at all, I felt the need to change the direction.... 'Course people are more interested in being condescending then contributing to the discussion... It's a forum and we're talking about a game that hasn't come out yet, this is all "theory fighter".
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Good things have been said about them... you can SS cancel them, they look pretty, they even can contribute to more damage. Their drawbacks just so happen to overshadow its good attributes, it's not being negative it's being real. I understand your perspective on theory fighting, so ok. Before we got our hands on the demo, yes, it was all theories. Now that we have it, more or less nothing is a theory from the feedback or anything else relating to it. Things will change, this PB won't.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
No, it's called high level play. Perhaps you've heard of it?
Saying it's hypothetical is like saying 40-frame lows in 3D fighters will only hypothetically be blocked on reaction. It's not hypothetical. If you get hit with it, you made an error and it's not something that happens with any kind of frequency at high levels. So much so that people simply don't use these attacks at high levels.
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
But how many of us are playing the demo at High Level with another person right now? How easy is it to bait with the PB sidestep? That should determine how easy it is to get in someones head. Is it possible to tell the difference between the sidestep animation and attack animation and still react? How many frames is it from the time you release the button? I don't know those answers, but I know I hit people with Charge attacks all the time because they force whiffs, PB's aren't really any different.
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
So how would you lose if you don't make any errors...? It steps back and it charges, you can release it when you want or sidestep from it. It's not as black and white as you make it sound.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I see what you did there.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
None of that is relevant because it's a 40-frame attack. You can't get in my head because I see you charging the PB and I wait to perform my mid-hold. That's it. That is the extent of the mind game at high levels.
The fact that you don't know the answers to the questions you just asked clarifies to me why you think someone can't react properly to a PB 99% of the time.
I never said errors do not happen. I said an error the likes of not reacting to a 40-frame attack do not happen with much frequency. I'm not going to use a 40-frame low in a tournament or against anyone good. And if I see someone using a 40-frame low on me, I'm automatically going to assume they aren't very good at the game.
Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
Super slow lows are blocked 98% of the time. The only time they aren't is because the person was under such great pressure that they lose their reaction time some.
Charging attacks are much different considering they have a very distinct visual (and even audio) showing that it is being used. The whole getting in someone head thing has been worn out within this game let's not go back to that world.
Fact is if you go to a tournament (assuming there are some) and you are using your very same tactics and taking care of business then you can make your claims. Until then speak your mind but realize there are those with much higher experiences that understand how things work at a tournament level.
Charging attacks are much different considering they have a very distinct visual (and even audio) showing that it is being used. The whole getting in someone head thing has been worn out within this game let's not go back to that world.
Fact is if you go to a tournament (assuming there are some) and you are using your very same tactics and taking care of business then you can make your claims. Until then speak your mind but realize there are those with much higher experiences that understand how things work at a tournament level.
Lets kill a couple of birds with one stone! power blows can be effective once they remove holding from criticals. Give each character around 5 or 6 moves that cause critical states, that are punishable on block. With this in place, players would have to actually set the opponent up to use a critical instead of it being tacked on to a whole bunch of moves. This will allow players to effectively use "Power Blows" and give Team Ninja's new move some shine, while giving us players an actual use for the move.
One thing i wanted to say was that Im not personally trying to defend the PB in the sense of it being a must use move to win the match compared to a good launcher or throw. However i do believe that although its 37/38 frames, give or take, with cancellation possibilities on top of the fact that the cancellation is evasive to most attacks, Its still useful and probably WILL hit if used correctly.
Slow moves have always been used in tournament settings. Not often but moves that can have a long delay, evasive or cancel can, to a certain extent, mess with peoples mind. Take hayabusa's "NINJA SLIDE" No one likes to use it and it grants nothing but whenever it comes out by accident at events people get hit by it and the move is 30Frames.
Now we could say 'well the PB is 37/40* frames so its easier to see'. True it will be a little easier but the fact is that it can be cancelled and charged for longer frames on top of a little evasiveness. Look at this video for example. It shows that even at the highest level of play, charge moves that are obvious and slow CAN and WILL still hit. The charge attacks have good delay and evasive properties. Adding a cancel to that gives the attacker more opportunities to properly adjust to the right situation.
GO STRAIGHT TO THE 04m21s MARK to see the example.
BTW Hayabusa's charge move is 33frames without any charging involved and 67 frames with it fully charged, he got hit with both.
MASTER
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
That wasn't a very good example. You were knocked out of the attack multiple times before it connected. The first time it connected, NinjaCW was right in your face and it just barely evaded the same attack that knocked you out of the attack before. The second time NinjaCW did a throw and a counter before the attack finished. You just got lucky the counter came out too early.
I wouldn't call those good examples of potential PB usage. I'd call that two lucky hits by you that should've resulted in a CH for NinjaCW, followed by a hold on the second one.
You also have to factor in the game environment. If DOA5 plays anything like DOA4, it won't matter if PBs are effective, you'll be one of only a few people trying to play it competitively. If we get the changes we want, I guarantee it will be far more risky for you to use PBs than it would be for you to use that charge attack in DOA4.
I wouldn't call those good examples of potential PB usage. I'd call that two lucky hits by you that should've resulted in a CH for NinjaCW, followed by a hold on the second one.
You also have to factor in the game environment. If DOA5 plays anything like DOA4, it won't matter if PBs are effective, you'll be one of only a few people trying to play it competitively. If we get the changes we want, I guarantee it will be far more risky for you to use PBs than it would be for you to use that charge attack in DOA4.
Lucky? 67frames, seriously? I used that move a lot on him in other matches too would you like links to those? If i was to go by your logic i should have been knocked out of that move ALL the time but it doesnt happen that way(obviously). All I am saying is that the PB has similar properties as that move and that old charge attack is useful as you saw. Now "WE" could make these so called adjustments and make the PB far more risky but then there would be no point in having the move in the game if it never executes.
Right now as it stands, it at least has some usefulness to it and is the only move in the game that activates hidden danger zones that lead to more damage (Usually 50% of a life bar which is a good risk since the only thing stopping it is a hold that may only do 50pts).
MASTER
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Unless you're playing as Hayabusa against a character with a PB that comes out as a punch. In which case you stand to get far more than 50pts.
>_>
Gill Hustle
Well-Known Member
Yo Dr. D!
In some of the "Concept Matches" I posted, I tried putting emphasis on a lot of the stuff like PB's from the demo.
Here's some PB use I did. How about the match Vs Ayane that starts at 3:46.
I used PB @ 4:00, PB SS cancel 4:06, and PB again @ 5:38.
While I agree that at 40 frames might be a bit much but I think with adjustments, the move can still be effective:
I did more in the other vids I posted bu, can't remember which and where.
In some of the "Concept Matches" I posted, I tried putting emphasis on a lot of the stuff like PB's from the demo.
Here's some PB use I did. How about the match Vs Ayane that starts at 3:46.
I used PB @ 4:00, PB SS cancel 4:06, and PB again @ 5:38.
While I agree that at 40 frames might be a bit much but I think with adjustments, the move can still be effective:
I did more in the other vids I posted bu, can't remember which and where.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
This person that you hit Gil wasn't even watching for them. The first one he/she was mashing whiffing attacks and you weren't even near him/her (that is a situation that I have mentioned where you could land them from). The second time you hit him/her with it he was spinning with no purpose, pretty much mashing her Hajin Roll. The one that you SS canceled was ok, but he/she held high for a mid move.
Which brings me to this conclusion, this person has absolutely no idea on what he/she is doing or playing, completely.
Which brings me to this conclusion, this person has absolutely no idea on what he/she is doing or playing, completely.
Power Blows are the new Slope Throws.
Gill Hustle
Well-Known Member
That was the CPU leveling up, however when the computer charges I've usually just blocked and only tried countering a few times.
Since it does have a guard break along with future tweaks I still think PB's will have their uses.
I get what your saying though.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
I'm with Allen. It just seemed like you kind of randomly tossed them out. The opponent just looked like they were mashing away. Not exactly high level.
Also, I don't really see a PB ever being blocked under the current system. If I see someone charging, I'll either attempt to interrupt with a fast attack that tracks, or I'll wait until it executes and counterhold on reaction.
I just don't see any practical situation in which I'd be whiffing an attack that would allow you to whiff punish with a 40-frame attack.
Also, I don't really see a PB ever being blocked under the current system. If I see someone charging, I'll either attempt to interrupt with a fast attack that tracks, or I'll wait until it executes and counterhold on reaction.
I just don't see any practical situation in which I'd be whiffing an attack that would allow you to whiff punish with a 40-frame attack.