Sad story

[Codemaster92163]

Pai could definitely do with more damage, but I have far more fun with her than I do Helena (something that surprises me immensely). When compared with characters like Akira and Sarah - her brethren - it's obvious that she's lacking in more than one department.

 

[Vincent Rayne]

What?! Has this been confirmed? I was taking a break from Pai, but if this is true I may be taking my leave.

made a guide all about Pai's holds and grabs. what you can do and what not. the only thing i missed was following up with her 64P after some of them because it seems pretty fast.

but yeah. she is the hardest character to win with in that game and is also the weakest in terms of overall damage or just balancing in general. she has a decent force tech game at least. but it still doesn't make up for what she's lacking.

 

[Tokkosho]

^ @ 1:20 her best option is 66H+K and nothing but 33P+K is guaranteed after her mid and low kick holds (there are ofc faster mids that are guaranteed if you prefer stun mixups, but 33P+K is the only guaranteed launcher) and she only gets a guaranteed jab after mid punch hold (which is bs)

 

[Vincent Rayne]

that was my biggest issue was that she didn't have any guaranteed combos. jahn lee and helena have them. why is she left out?

 

[Tokkosho]

idk but she definitely needs it... i want 33 p+k guaranteed after mid punch hold, and 66H+K guaranteed after low and mid kick, i think she would be much better

 

[OldsmoBuick]

made a guide all about Pai's holds and grabs. what you can do and what not. the only thing i missed was following up with her 64P after some of them because it seems pretty fast.

but yeah. she is the hardest character to win with in that game and is also the weakest in terms of overall damage or just balancing in general. she has a decent force tech game at least. but it still doesn't make up for what she's lacking.

Most of those follow-up attacks aren't guaranteed. If you set the dummy to critical hold at the fastest setting and match those holds to the corresponding attacks, you will get held every time after Pai's mid and low punch holds.

 

[Vincent Rayne]

Most of those follow-up attacks aren't guaranteed. If you set the dummy to critical hold at the fastest setting and match those holds to the corresponding attacks, you will get held every time after Pai's mid and low punch holds.

it's not considering holds obviously but i've never had a problem even during real matches. most of the time a person can't hold in time anyway. especially if you get a perfect counter off. and to add to that these moves were made looking at frame data from the person being stunned (how far negative they are) and the quickest attack that can hit them before they recover. (a move that is faster than the frames it takes for the opponent to get back to neutral. these are all pretty much guaranteed when playing against another player.

 

[OldsmoBuick]

^ @ 1:20 her best option is 66H+K and nothing but 33P+K is guaranteed after her mid and low kick holds (there are ofc faster mids that are guaranteed if you prefer stun mixups, but 33P+K is the only guaranteed launcher) and she only gets a guaranteed jab after mid punch hold (which is bs)

Much of this is inaccurate. 33P+K is not 'guaranteed' after a low kick hold. You may 'occasional' land 33P+K after a low kick hold, but the timing is, very, tight. After a mid kick hold, you can land P+K into a sit-down stun, into 3K+H for a launcher. You can even fit 66K+ H in with good timing. Lastly, there are no guaranteed follow-up attacks after a successful mid punch hold. None. If there were guaranteed attacks -- I'd settle for one -- after a mid punch hold, I'd still be using Pai.

it's not considering holds obviously but i've never had a problem even during real matches. most of the time a person can't hold in time anyway. especially if you get a perfect counter off. and to add to that these moves were made looking at frame data from the person being stunned (how far negative they are) and the quickest attack that can hit them before they recover. (a move that is faster than the frames it takes for the opponent to get back to neutral. these are all pretty much guaranteed when playing against another player.

Right. However, guaranteed means, guaranteed.

 

[Tokkosho]

Much of this is inaccurate. 33P+K is not 'guaranteed' after a low kick hold. You may 'occasional' land 33P+K after a low kick hold, but the timing is, very, tight. After a mid kick hold, you can land P+K into a sit-down stun, into 3K+H for a launcher. You can even fit 66K+ H in with good timing. Lastly, there are no guaranteed follow-up attacks after a successful mid punch hold. None. If there were guaranteed attacks -- I'd settle for one -- after a mid punch hold, I'd still be using Pai.

ahh yep your right, me and EMPEROR COW were testing the mid punch followup last night, and we both got the punch but i probably just didnt change the counter, and i was clumping low and mid kick hold together because they have the same frame advantage i believe, but low kick puts them farther away... but im not even totally sure on that, i just spent 1 min in training testing the mid punch and low kick follow up again. This just makes her so much weaker.....

 

[Vincent Rayne]

and yet people have the nerve to complain about Pai when she wins and say she's easy to win with. but then again those people are bad anyway.

 

[shunwong]

If there were guaranteed attacks -- I'd settle for one -- after a mid punch hold, I'd still be using Pai.

I have also given up on Pai (and on Eliot). I used them a lot in the beginning, but they just take too much effort to win. call me lazy, but I'd rather use characters with better tools (Gen Fu, Kokoro). Let's see how Pai turns out post patch.

 

[Tokkosho]

Im not gonna give up on her, its satisfying to do 18 hit half like critical burst combos, and getting 2-3 critical bursts each round.

 

[Vincent Rayne]

you know what? now that i think about it, i have to say that everything in that vid, or at least 98% of it, came from testing it on actual people first. I have to say that these have worked 100% of the time. whether facing someone new to DOA5 or new to the franchise or DOA veterans or experienced fighting game players. who cares if it doesn't work against a cpu that reads the input. there's a lot of stuff you can't do to a cpu opponent because of that very reason. I still use all these things and to reassure myself i played DOA5 last night against several people and everything still worked 100% of the time. If another actual person starts rejecting all these setups in an actual repetitive manner than show me because so far it just seems like you are putting down Pai more than needed.

People are talking about quitting a character that we like and you are giving them more excuses to drop her. Pai would be disappointed in you.

 

[Sixmsj]

Im not gonna give up on her, its satisfying to do 18 hit half like critical burst combos, and getting 2-3 critical bursts each round.

Same here, but 20.

 

[Tokkosho]

history you dont use pai you lying..... ...
and vincent, working online and working in tournies are 2 different things entirely. In tournies people will catch on quicker, learn about her, adapt. when they do, she'll be crap. And when holds are a major part of this game, and she only has one decent guaranteed followup (mid kick, the high counter followups are shitty unless your really close to a wall imo) and people learn that, she'll be harder to win with than she already is

 

[Vincent Rayne]

i do use pai. where did you see that i don't? but i play tournies btw so i know what you're talking about. and i've still yet to see someone break out of these hold followups.

and i'm very curious where you see my history.

 

[Tokkosho]

history= sixmsj.
i get countered a lot online ( mostly dont at all) when i try 33P+K after mid punch hold, 66H+K after mid and low kick hold, probably just people getting really lucky on a guess, but its obviously not hard to counter them. just cause it works now doesn't mean in a month it won't be general knowledge that you can hold after them.

 

[OldsmoBuick]

I have also given up on Pai (and on Eliot). I used them a lot in the beginning, but they just take too much effort to win. call me lazy, but I'd rather use characters with better tools (Gen Fu, Kokoro). Let's see how Pai turns out post patch.

I would hardly consider you lazy. You're suppose to be enjoying your character and the time you spend playing DOA5. If that's not the cas, move on to someone that you do enjoy or just fits your desired play-style -- there are plenty of options.

 

[Codemaster92163]

I actually dropped my main (my main for the past 7 years, Helena) for Pai. She's just....so fun xD

 

[Vincent Rayne]

just played pai today. had an unbeatable streak with her. let that be some inspiration for ya.