Sidestepping

[Dr Sexual]

How is everybody liking the new SS mechanics so far?

Im finding that its still just not reliable enough at this point to be used consistently.

I bring this up because I recently started playing Soul Calibur casually and I gotta say it felt really good to be able to actually sidestep things properly. In my opinion attacks still track waaaaaay too hard in DOA5. I mean you still cant reliably sidestep the most linear, basic attack strings in the game (PPP). You may SS the first attack but you'll still get hit by the followups.

If they lightened or even removed the tracking of linear attacks do you think that would change the game too much? Like what if they went with a SC style where you needed to specifically use horizontal based attacks to step kill? Would that alter the balance of the game too much?

I know with Jann Lee he only has a limited amount of horizontal based attacks.. And most of these attacks are not his most effective as the game plays now. Would having a true SS mechanic give new purpose to these moves? Maybe add more depth to the game? Or would it further handicap/strengthen characters too much and negatively effect balance?

 

[HiguraShiki]

It isn't that the moves track, it's just that you are either sidestepping too late/early or that the string is simply too fast for you to throw out an attack after sidestepping. Most of the time you would want to double or tripple sidestep to avoid the entire string. That or you wait until the last hit and sidestep attack. Soul Calibur 5 is easier to sidestep because the strings aren't usually that long or consecutively fast.

 

[Zeo]

It isn't that the moves track, it's just that you are either sidestepping too late/early or that the string is simply too fast for you to throw out an attack after sidestepping. Most of the time you would want to double or tripple sidestep to avoid the entire string. That or you wait until the last hit and sidestep attack. Soul Calibur 5 is easier to sidestep because the strings aren't usually that long or consecutively fast.

Oddly enough double sidestepping has never worked for me. It's more effective to just use Akira's SS attack after the first sidestep. It's one of the more evasive SS attacks and he actually sidesteps a 2nd time before the attack.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Oddly enough double sidestepping has never worked for me. It's more effective to just use Akira's SS attack after the first sidestep. It's one of the more evasive SS attacks and he actually sidesteps a 2nd time before the attack.

Well, it requires knowledge of when you can use it. For example, if you see Hitomi going for a PPP, you would block the first 2 P's then SS the last one. You should be able to land an SS hit on her since she doesn't have enough time to recover.

 

[Awesmic]

Sorry, but I just gotta say it...

I LOVE JAK-ing off to Christie.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Here's how the side step system currently is:

The side step command will be invulnerable to any single linear attack within it's 18 frame initial window and vulnerable to any hit during it's 10 frame recovery.

In the beta builds, you could double step to evade two linear attacks and have the opponent continue off-axis, as long as the opponent continued the string. However, in the final build and patches, once you evade an attack, the opponent will realign on the axis for the follow-up attack regardless of if it's linear or tracking attack. Since the evade only is invulnerable to one attack, double quick attacks like a majority of the linear strings will hit you in the recovery or even the remaining 18 frames. This basically makes the side step non-existent because the only viable time you have to use it is on a linear end-of-string attack, which rarely happens at higher levels of play and really you're just forced to perform a hold because that will grant you damage.

Jury is still out on if the next patch returns the system to the beta-build axis or keeps the final build axis.

Having it back to the way it was in the beta builds will help alleviate a lot of the spamming going on in the game, such as Jann Lee's Dragon Stance.

 

[synce]

I wouldn't mind being able to double step. Also it'd be nice if the attacks were faster. Some characters have useless sidesteps

 

[P1naatt1ke1tt0]

What I've seen good players do online is sidestep running attacks. That's a great way to negate many moves like Hitomis's running P or Mila's 3F+K. As stated above, sidestepping strings is next to impossible. I too wish to see this fantastic sounding beta build system reinstated.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Here's how the side step system currently is:

The side step command will be invulnerable to any single linear attack within it's 18 frame initial window and vulnerable to any hit during it's 10 frame recovery.

In the beta builds, you could double step to evade two linear attacks and have the opponent continue off-axis, as long as the opponent continued the string. However, in the final build and patches, once you evade an attack, the opponent will realign on the axis for the follow-up attack regardless of if it's linear or tracking attack. Since the evade only is invulnerable to one attack, double quick attacks like a majority of the linear strings will hit you in the recovery or even the remaining 18 frames. This basically makes the side step non-existent because the only viable time you have to use it is on a linear end-of-string attack, which rarely happens at higher levels of play and really you're just forced to perform a hold because that will grant you damage.

Jury is still out on if the next patch returns the system to the beta-build axis or keeps the final build axis.

Having it back to the way it was in the beta builds will help alleviate a lot of the spamming going on in the game, such as Jann Lee's Dragon Stance.

Who in their right state of mind thought it was a good idea to remove this... It would essentially eliminate most of the guessing you would have to do in the game...

 

[Ghosty-J]

Oddly enough double sidestepping has never worked for me. It's more effective to just use Akira's SS attack after the first sidestep. It's one of the more evasive SS attacks and he actually sidesteps a 2nd time before the attack.

This. It's a proven fact that Akira is a sidestepping MONSTER. I've dodged practically almost everything because of his /.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

its all character dependent on how good universal sidestepping is. milas into her tackle is pretty much the best one followed by helena's into her low sweep while everyone else is left with worthless sidestep follow ups. characters with command sidesteps like brad, christie, bayman don't even need to bother with the crap universal one. this is just more proof what a disappointment the final build turned out to be compared to pre-release versions where sidestepping was actually useful. DOA4.5 indeed

 

[Dr Sexual]

Good explanation Mr Wah.

Based on what you said I'd be completely behind going back to the beta version. That current axis realignment you just explained is completely unacceptable to me in a modern 3D fighter.

 

[D Glock]

I just don't bother with it.

 

[CyberEvil]

There isn't currently a point to sidestepping most of the cast since they'll just realign simply by mashing. Only real exceptions are Hitomi and other characters with several single strike moves that are easy to see coming.

 

[RoboJoe]

its all character dependent on how good universal sidestepping is. milas into her tackle is pretty much the best one followed by helena's into her low sweep while everyone else is left with worthless sidestep follow ups. characters with command sidesteps like brad, christie, bayman don't even need to bother with the crap universal one. this is just more proof what a disappointment the final build turned out to be compared to pre-release versions where sidestepping was actually useful. DOA4.5 indeed

Gen Fu has a decent sidestep followup: P+K. I've had it hit people mid string even if when the string tracks, since it tends to put you behind the opponent where they can't realign the string fast enough before P+K connects.

To me it looks like TN wanted a sidestep system like Virtua Fighter's, but forgot that VF is more poke based than DOA allowing sidestep to shine more there.

 

[Musourenka]

Even as a Kokoro player, I'd be fine with the beta sidestep mechanics.

 

[Mesharey]

I only use SS with Mila and Hitomi, to attack and not to dodge an attack.

 

[shunwong]

Gen Fu has a decent sidestep followup: P+K. I've had it hit people mid string even if when the string tracks, since it tends to put you behind the opponent where they can't realign the string fast enough before P+K connects.

I use Gen Fu's P+K sidestep attack a lot too. In fact, I find myself sidestepping more in DOA5 than in VF5FS.

 

[NightAntilli]

I have no trouble with the sidestepping mechanics. I don't ever sidestep without doing an attack from it though. The sidestepping is different from other games, and well, it's a thing to adapt to. There are some moments it's smart to use and some moments a no-go. Why would you try and sidestep pp if you can just crush instead? Just because it's supposed to sidestep linear attacks doesn't mean you should use it against all linear attacks.

 

[DrDogg]

There isn't currently a point to sidestepping most of the cast since they'll just realign simply by mashing. Only real exceptions are Hitomi and other characters with several single strike moves that are easy to see coming.

I just don't bother with it.

No offense, but these are two examples of why the level of play in this game is so low right now.

I have no trouble with the sidestepping mechanics. I don't ever sidestep without doing an attack from it though. The sidestepping is different from other games, and well, it's a thing to adapt to. There are some moments it's smart to use and some moments a no-go. Why would you try and sidestep pp if you can just crush instead? Just because it's supposed to sidestep linear attacks doesn't mean you should use it against all linear attacks.

It's used in the same manner as other games, it's just not as effective. You shouldn't be attacking from every sidestep, just like people shouldn't be attacking nonstop, even though they do.

I think the biggest complaint I have after watching DOA tournament matches is the severe lack of defensive ability on display.