Simple Fix for "Break Hold" issue that might work. What do you guys think??

[Shinji XYZ]

I watched oMASTERo stream the other day when he discussed the differences in mechanics between DOA5 and DOA6. It was pretty clear to me that DOA6 has improved upon the overall Stun and Juggle system when compared to DOA5. An issue had been brought up that the "meter" currently builds up too fast, resulting in players abusing the "Break Hold" too much.

"Break Hold" was created to counter the "Fatal Stuns". But since we could use the "meter" anytime to "Break Hold", BH is currently used to counter all types of Strikes and this could be annoying for players who want to keep the offensive momentum going, only to be disrupted by a simple "Break Hold" (crutch).

My suggestion is to limit the use of "Break Hold" only when you are in a "Fatal Stun" status. Currently, when you have one to three bars of meter, the meter color is "Blue". When the meter is full (four bars), its color is "Purple". "Break Hold" uses two bars of meter. If we got Fatal Stunned, then this would be the ONLY time that we could use the BH. If we had at least two bars of the meter when we got Fatal Stunned, those two bars will change color to either "Orange" or "bright Red" as a visual indicator that we have enough meter to "Break Hold" and is currently getting Fatal Stunned by our opponent.

Regarding the Ground game, a one-hit tech-up like in DOA5 seems quite forced and feels pretty weird to me. In Tekken, you cannot lie on the ground for too long because you would get punished Hard by your opponent. What we need in DOA are meaningful ground Strikes that cause reasonable damage that we could do over and over to those opponents lying too long on the ground, thus forcing them to tech-up. My suggestion would be to increase the damage for 8P+K, 2P, 2K, or maybe other types of abusive attacks that would cause similar effects to punish grounded opponents. This way, the flow of the battle would feel more natural than forced. Another suggestion would be once you got hit with either 8P+K, 2P, or 2K, you could only do a quick tech-up or firstly roll (foreground, background, forward, or backward roll) then tech-up, but you won't be able to do any get-up attacks (low or mid kicks). Thus, this would give an advantage to the player doing the offense. (I realized that currently, DOA has no ground roll system implemented in the game yet).

By making these adjustments, I believe we could change the overall meta for DOA6. The "meter" would now mostly be used for offense rather than defense, and lying on the ground for too long would be a disadvantage.

 

[KasumiLover]

I watched oMASTERo stream the other day when he discussed the differences in mechanics between DOA5 and DOA6. It was pretty clear to me that DOA6 has improved upon the overall Stun and Juggle system when compared to DOA5. An issue had been brought up that the "meter" currently builds up too fast, resulting in players abusing the "Break Hold" too much.

"Break Hold" was created to counter the "Fatal Stuns". But since we could use the "meter" anytime to "Break Hold", BH is currently used to counter all types of Strikes and this could be annoying for players who want to keep the offensive momentum going, only to be disrupted by a simple "Break Hold" (crutch).

My suggestion is to limit the use of "Break Hold" only when you are in a "Fatal Stun" status. Currently, if you have one to three bars of meter, the meter color is "Blue". When the meter is full (four bars), its color is "Purple". "Break Hold" uses two bars of meter. If we got Fatal Stunned, then this would be the ONLY time that we could use the BH. If we had at least two bars of the meter when we got Fatal Stunned, those two bars will change color to "Orange" or "bright Red" as a visual indicator that we have the meter to "Break Hold" and is currently getting Fatal Stunned by our opponent.

Regarding the Ground game, a one-hit tech-up like in DOA5 seems quite forced and feels pretty weird to me. In Tekken, you cannot lie on the ground for too long because you would get punished Hard by your opponent. What we need in DOA are meaningful ground Strikes that cause reasonable damage that we could do over and over to those opponents lying on the ground, thus forcing them to tech-up. My suggestion would be to increase the damage for 8P+K, 2P, 2K, or maybe other types of abusive attacks that would cause similar effects to punish grounded opponents. This way, the flow of the battle would feel more natural than forced. Another suggestion would be once you got hit with either 8P+K, 2P, or 2K, you could tech-up but you won't be able to do any get-up attacks (low or mid kicks). Thus, would give an advantage to the player doing the offense.

By making these adjustments, I believe we could change the overall meta for DOA6. The "meter" would now mostly used for offense rather than defense, and lying on the ground for too long would be such a disadvantage.

Tbh I don't think the one hit tech up os forced, I think they should bring it back since its obvious when you're trying to tech the opponent up, plus heavy force techs are always the slower attacks so the opponent has plenty of time to get up before it hits. Doa6 doesn't really punish people for lying on the ground so that breaks the flow for the aggressor since we have to wait out the opponent because if we try to go for a FT now they'll likely just tech up after a simple poke or they'll just WU kick. In LR you could just hit them once with a heavy FT attack and they'd get up xD

As for the break hold, I say just raise the cost of a break hold to a full meter since a break hold that counters everything and leaves you +5 is just as powerful as a break blow. If they did that it would make the player be more wise on what they want to use their meter for, especially since sidestep attacks costing 1/4 of meter can help keep people being reckless with the meter. They could also tone down meter gain since it build up so fast already

 

[Shinji XYZ]

Doa6 doesn't really punish people for lying on the ground so that breaks the flow for the aggressor since we have to wait out the opponent

This is exactly what is missing in DOA, meaningful punishers for opponents lying on the ground. A one-hit heavy force-tech attack still does not make sense to me and feels unnatural in a fight.

In a fight, you should be allowed to lie on the ground as long as you wanted to, as long as you think that you are still in an advantageous position (whiffing opponent's mid and high attacks). Fights in Tekken feel more natural in this regard, maybe DOA should also introduce ground rolls like in Tekken lol.

Tekken, SC, and VF all have meaningful ground punishers, I think DOA should too.

As for the break hold, I say just raise the cost of a break hold to a full meter since a break hold that counters everything and leaves you +5 is just as powerful as a break blow.

I used to think this would be a good solution too. But considering how easy it is to do/mix a "Fatal Stun" move in a combo, plus it doesn't require any "meter" to pull off, I believe requiring two bars instead of a full meter (four bars) for a "Break Hold" would be reasonable.

The "Fatal Stun" and "Break" mechanics are not particularly that bad when used as originally intended. So limiting the use of "Break Hold" to only when you are getting Fatal Stunned would significantly change DOA6 gameplay IMO, without the need to even nerf "meter" gain.

 

[Onryoki]

I watched oMASTERo stream the other day when he discussed the differences in mechanics between DOA5 and DOA6. It was pretty clear to me that DOA6 has improved upon the overall Stun and Juggle system when compared to DOA5. An issue had been brought up that the "meter" currently builds up too fast, resulting in players abusing the "Break Hold" too much.

"Break Hold" was created to counter the "Fatal Stuns". But since we could use the "meter" anytime to "Break Hold", BH is currently used to counter all types of Strikes and this could be annoying for players who want to keep the offensive momentum going, only to be disrupted by a simple "Break Hold" (crutch).

My suggestion is to limit the use of "Break Hold" only when you are in a "Fatal Stun" status. Currently, when you have one to three bars of meter, the meter color is "Blue". When the meter is full (four bars), its color is "Purple". "Break Hold" uses two bars of meter. If we got Fatal Stunned, then this would be the ONLY time that we could use the BH. If we had at least two bars of the meter when we got Fatal Stunned, those two bars will change color to either "Orange" or "bright Red" as a visual indicator that we have enough meter to "Break Hold" and is currently getting Fatal Stunned by our opponent.

Regarding the Ground game, a one-hit tech-up like in DOA5 seems quite forced and feels pretty weird to me. In Tekken, you cannot lie on the ground for too long because you would get punished Hard by your opponent. What we need in DOA are meaningful ground Strikes that cause reasonable damage that we could do over and over to those opponents lying too long on the ground, thus forcing them to tech-up. My suggestion would be to increase the damage for 8P+K, 2P, 2K, or maybe other types of abusive attacks that would cause similar effects to punish grounded opponents. This way, the flow of the battle would feel more natural than forced. Another suggestion would be once you got hit with either 8P+K, 2P, or 2K, you could only do a quick tech-up or firstly roll (foreground, background, forward, or backward roll) then tech-up, but you won't be able to do any get-up attacks (low or mid kicks). Thus, this would give an advantage to the player doing the offense. (I realized that currently, DOA has no ground roll system implemented in the game yet).

By making these adjustments, I believe we could change the overall meta for DOA6. The "meter" would now mostly be used for offense rather than defense, and lying on the ground for too long would be a disadvantage.

Or we could delete the meter and the mechanics with it altogether. They improved the sidestep but fucked it up by making the attack of the sidestep a meter attack. There’s honestly no need for a breakhold or an alternative when everybody in the game has holds.

Honestly 6 has only a handful of things that are better than 5. Overall 5 is still more of a solid fighter that’s based on skill instead of bullshit mechanics and broken stages. 5 might’ve been too aggressive with its ground game, but with a few tweaks it would’ve been fine. I wish with 6 they fleshed out 5 even more and made it balanced with slight mechanical changes.