Some issues with several characters

[TRI Mike]

So I'm trying to make a list of the changes I think DOA5 needs for the next patch. I already made one focused mostly on Helena and Tina in my blog here but would like to get deeper into it. The thing is that I don't exactly know everything about the rest of the cast and would like clarification about these things. I'm rather lazy to go investigate in each character subforum for them so I'll just post them here.

1) Do Pai's holds guarantee anything¿
2) Besides Tina, who else has unsafe guard breaks¿
3) Which other characters could benefit more from sit-down stuns a-la Koko/Rig¿
4) Do you think Alpha's neutral teleports should be added¿
5) Do you think Alpha should get wake-up kicks¿
6) Should Fang, Eliot and Fu get +20 from parries instead of +16¿
7) Do you think Fang, Tina, Lisa and others should get frame advantage from their combo throws being broken like Bayman and Mila¿
8) How many unholdable stuns and safe attacks should each character have¿
9) What is exactly wrong with Hayate and how should he be fixed¿
10) Should the VF characters lose the frame advantage from blocked PP or every other character gain them¿
11) How many plus-on-guard attacks should each character get¿
12) Should the critical threshold be shortened to allow for faster CB set-ups¿
13) What do you think of wake-up kicks being linear, unsafe and with less invincibility¿
14) Should obstacle sit-down stuns be shakeable¿
15) Who would you buff (besides Helena)¿ and why¿

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

3) Which other characters could benefit more from sit-down stuns a-la Koko/Rig¿ Well sorry to say that, but Helena.
4) Do you think Alpha's neutral teleports should be added¿ No. She's already painful.
5) Do you think Alpha should get wake-up kicks¿ Yes, that would make her more playble as her own character, she looks like a joke character to pick now.
7) Do you think Fang, Tina, Lisa and others should get frame advantage from their combo throws being broken like Bayman and Mila¿ At least for Lisa's shooting star.
12) Should the critical threshold be shortened to allow for faster CB set-ups¿ It depends on the character. Kokoro has currently the quickest way if I'm not wrong (236T.P+K), I feel like it's really painful with Brad.
15) Who would you buff (besides Helena)¿ and why¿ Helena. Woops. Seriously ? I don't even care about Alpha, because I don't want her back as her own playable/viable character in DOA6. IDK.

 

[DR2K]

1) Do Pai's holds guarantee anything¿ I think some, get 1 hit guaranteed so she plays the stun game afterwards.
2) Besides Tina, who else has unsafe guard breaks¿ Bradwong
3) Which other characters could benefit more from sit-down stuns a-la Koko/Rig¿ All of them
4) Do you think Alpha's neutral teleports should be added¿ Nope
5) Do you think Alpha should get wake-up kicks¿ Nope
6) Should Fang, Eliot and Fu get +20 from parries instead of +16¿ Yes, except for Genfu
7) Do you think Fang, Tina, Lisa and others should get frame advantage from their combo throws being broken like Bayman and Mila¿ Yes, no logical reason as to why not
8) How many unholdable stuns and safe attacks should each character have¿ More than they do now.
9) What is exactly wrong with Hayate and how should he be fixed¿ Dunno
10) Should the VF characters lose the frame advantage from blocked PP or every other character gain them¿ Other characters should gain them.
11) How many plus-on-guard attacks should each character get¿ Dunno
12) Should the critical threshold be shortened to allow for faster CB set-ups¿ Not for all characters.
13) What do you think of wake-up kicks being linear, unsafe and with less invincibility¿ They're fine as is.
14) Should obstacle sit-down stuns be shakeable¿ No stun should be shakeable.
15) Who would you buff (besides Helena)¿ and why¿ Any character that has no means of playing outside of stun

 

[Chaos]

I want them to bring back Hitomi's tiger claw : from DOA4/DOAD it was exremely useful & it can confuse your opponent
and also it was one of my favorite combo strings, Im fucking piss off that TN removed it.

Ryu need his lighting fast kick back it was so wonderful to use against people who whiff thier attacks.
Hes weak without it.

 

[Deleted member 473]

Honestly Zack and Helena are the only two that need buffs right now..

 

[MasterHavik]

1) Do Pai's holds guarantee anything¿
2) Besides Tina, who else has unsafe guard breaks¿
3) Which other characters could benefit more from sit-down stuns a-la Koko/Rig¿
4) Do you think Alpha's neutral teleports should be added¿
5) Do you think Alpha should get wake-up kicks¿
6) Should Fang, Eliot and Fu get +20 from parries instead of +16¿
7) Do you think Fang, Tina, Lisa and others should get frame advantage from their combo throws being broken like Bayman and Mila¿
8) How many unholdable stuns and safe attacks should each character have¿
9) What is exactly wrong with Hayate and how should he be fixed¿
10) Should the VF characters lose the frame advantage from blocked PP or every other character gain them¿
11) How many plus-on-guard attacks should each character get¿
12) Should the critical threshold be shortened to allow for faster CB set-ups¿
13) What do you think of wake-up kicks being linear, unsafe and with less invincibility¿
14) Should obstacle sit-down stuns be shakeable¿
15) Who would you buff (besides Helena)¿ and why¿​

1. Not real sure.
2. Umm.....Not to my knowledge.
3. Zack, Brad, Tina, Bass, and the maybe Ryu.
4. Still trying to unlock Alpha.
5. Why doesn't she have them to begin with like everyone else?
6. Yeah....it's how they get they keep the pressure on.
7. Why don't they have it to begin with? They should because if your going to give grappler adv. like that, then they all should have it.
8. At least two or three.
9. I don't know. PL thinks he's between A and B.
10. have them lsoe it so it would balance things out.
11. Umm....at least 5.
12. Yeah....some of these characters cbing in two hits is nuts.
13. Yeah. When PL said what they on block and such I faceplam.
14. Nah. They are a part of the game.
15. Zack, Helena, Lisa, Eliot, and Brad.

 

[shinryu]

3) Which other characters could benefit more from sit-down stuns a-la Koko/Rig¿

Literally everybody would. I'm not sure it's a great idea for some characters, actually.

7) Do you think Fang, Tina, Lisa and others should get frame advantage from their combo throws being broken like Bayman and Mila¿

The risk/reward on a combo throw is shitty right now for those characters, so yeah. I basically never combo throw as Tina since, really, why would I with JO cyclone handy? It might make sense to make the first break a +3 and still have disadvantage on the three-part throws, though, since then there's a good reason to go for an ender on the second part.

8) How many unholdable stuns and safe attacks should each character have¿

Again, I think this isn't too badly balanced right now. But then again, everybody I play can get a sitdown one way or the other, so that's maybe just my perspective.

10) Should the VF characters lose the frame advantage from blocked PP or every other character gain them¿

Buff not nerf! VF5FS has this right, frames off pp for sure for everybody. Having unsafe p is so weird.

13) What do you think of wake-up kicks being linear, unsafe and with less invincibility¿

The mid kick, sure. Low kick is ok as is I think at this point. At least losing the invincibility for mid kick would be good, timing crushes is almost impossible. I think the block disadvantage is generally fine. Maybe not linear though.

15) Who would you buff (besides Helena)¿ and why¿

It does sound like Lisa could use some love, though I'm not sure what exactly. Zack possibly as well. The slower characters could use a speed up on some mids for sure (12 frame mids, at least). e.g I'd give Bayman a 12 frame hold 3p and 3p, Tina 12 frame 6p and 11 frame hold 3p. It would make their guard crush situations a much better proposition for the slower characters. In conjunction with pp advantage it might be a good buff all around.

 

[Batcommander]

Lisa also has unsafe guard breaks

So I'm trying to make a list of the changes I think DOA5 needs for the next patch. I already made one focused mostly on Helena and Tina in my blog here but would like to get deeper into it. The thing is that I don't exactly know everything about the rest of the cast and would like clarification about these things. I'm rather lazy to go investigate in each character subforum for them so I'll just post them here.

1) Do Pai's holds guarantee anything¿
2) Besides Tina, who else has unsafe guard breaks¿
3) Which other characters could benefit more from sit-down stuns a-la Koko/Rig¿
4) Do you think Alpha's neutral teleports should be added¿
5) Do you think Alpha should get wake-up kicks¿
6) Should Fang, Eliot and Fu get +20 from parries instead of +16¿
7) Do you think Fang, Tina, Lisa and others should get frame advantage from their combo throws being broken like Bayman and Mila¿
8) How many unholdable stuns and safe attacks should each character have¿
9) What is exactly wrong with Hayate and how should he be fixed¿
10) Should the VF characters lose the frame advantage from blocked PP or every other character gain them¿
11) How many plus-on-guard attacks should each character get¿
12) Should the critical threshold be shortened to allow for faster CB set-ups¿
13) What do you think of wake-up kicks being linear, unsafe and with less invincibility¿
14) Should obstacle sit-down stuns be shakeable¿
15) Who would you buff (besides Helena)¿ and why¿

i answered n/a for stuff i have no clue on.

1. n/a
2. Lisa has one that puts her at -18 lol
3. TN should be more generous with sitdowns in general imo.
4. n/a
5. n/a
6. i dunno, do their parries make their next attack a counter hit? If so, then hell no.
7. honestly, i don't think that it's that big a deal, but sure it'd be nice. Personally i don't like how combo throws work anyway, so i choose the guaranteed throws since their unbreakable.
8. Imo, any move over 20 frames should be unholdable outside of stun since they are almost always linear and slow enough to react accordingly. This would help a lot of slow characters pressure game, imo.n
9. n/a
10. i'd like PP to be a natural combo for Lisa since it rocks, but i don't think it's that big of a deal. If anything, buff everyone else to the VF levels.
11. there should be more plus on block attacks in general
12. for certain characters, absolutely. In fact, if they buffed characters that relied on stun game, it would be compensation enough imo. I'm talking about getting CB on 3rd hit, or in some situations, 2nd hit, and this would only be for certain characters of course. They'd still take a risk, and CBs themselves are like i20, so i think it would be a fair tradeoff. I hate how characters that rely on DOA's "signature style" are gimped compared to characters that don't have to rely on it, that's silly.
13. they're fine
14. I think SEs need to go away period
15. Lisa needs fewer buffs than i initially thought she did at the start of game. If anything, she needs speed buffs and some plus on block moves, especially for her transitions into BT. Also, her Carrera stance needs to be reworked a bit, and 9P needs to be either an attack or sabaki.

 

[MajesticBlue]

When it comes to wake up kicks I think it needs to be like this. Range_Invincible_Tracking. Pick 2.

I really don't know much about Doa 5 Alpha other then if they want to give her wakeup kicks and stuff she needs a damage nerf or some tweaks. She is a glass cannon so it kinda defeats the purpose to give them to her.

Hayate seems to suit a particular playstyle. He seems to have an answer for nearly everything. Safe moves he can throw out to set up up his stun game and killer punish throws, even a ceiling game. His weakness is he is boring in the sense that he is fundamentals all day long. A little lacking in the lows it seems but I guess that is the price of having safe mids.

Ryu is somebody I want to see looked at. Yeah I know everybody thinks he is fine and what not but he has way too many issues. He doesn't need a major buff. Just fixed to work like he should. Before his lack of mids and string mixup was fine because of 8K. It is fine 8K s gone but he needs something to fill that gap. Just even making the hitbox a little better on 3P or making 6P safe would help. He also has no lows that give him much. While that is fine for Hayate, Ryu is lacking his mid options and safety. Make his 1KP a nautral combo or even just bring the doa 4 stun back and make the second hit 12 frame punishable. Making 66T an OH would be nice.....since he is a grappler but eh. It's like he gets all the down sides with none of the perks. Where is his ground game?

The way I see it is he can't play Doa4, and he really doesn't play Doa 5 other then the ceiling game. While that is good I don't feel that should be his only niche. His damage does not feel high enough to warrant a black and white playstyle of "If I don't read perfect I'm eating as much damage as I was going for". Having all of his frame advantage but having nothing to really do with it is the way it feels. Maybe I play too much Tekken now and I look at things differently. A safe 6P is important to him I think. It is a slow, high mid that only stuns on counter hit. Other then the stun being good, it seems like one of the worst mids in the game lol.

When it comes to answering the questions on your list I feel that you are trying to balance the game by giving everybody everything.The way I see it as long as everybody has a solid gameplan/something to go for it is fine. As long as they have a logical win condition that suits the character and playstyle, and an efficient way to acheive that. Everybody needs something good to shoot for. Just not the same thing. Everything else that follows should determine the risk vs reward and who gets what. People all go about balancing games differently though. Most of the time it's like lets see who can find the most broken stuf after that last patch lol.