Some players don't know how to play the basics...

grap3fruitman

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
But if we want a better game, they need to understand how to play and why we want things the way we do. So lets teach them!

I want to create a series of videos on playing DOA, mostly 3.1, from beginner to advanced levels with comparisons to DOA4. I'm willing to put in the time, effort and money to do this but the problem is I don't have the technical knowledge of DOA that most of you do. So, the ulterior motive here is also to teach me to play a better game. Even reading this forum I don't feel like I'm getting what I should be. The information is sort of mish-mashed together and hard to grasp.

My intention is to put up videos in parts, as they're completed, onto Youtube with both English and Japanese narration. The point of the Japanese narration is to attempt to close the language barrier between us and Team Ninja. It's also to pass knowledge of the game onto Japanese players and raise interest and the average level of play in Japan for 3.1. It has been stated multiple times that the Japanese DOA fans prefer 4 over 3.1 and it would be best to show them why 3.1 is the better game. I also do want to raise interest in 3.1 and DOA in the Western world and this is the point of having two different narrations.

My motivation to make this series of videos is due in part in my recent attempt to try and branch out into other fighting games. As, more-or-less, a complete beginner, I've found it nearly impossible to find a starting point to try and learn Super Street Fighter 4, Marvel Vs Capcom 3 and Mortal Kombat 9. There is no absolute beginner's guide for those. Most people that play at higher or even adequate levels
were tutored by other players one-on-one. That's not a luxury we really have in this community and I would like to help sort of fix that. Mr. Wah said on one of our podcasts that he once spent five hours teaching someone on how to play DOA++. I wish someone would have recorded that session so the community would have access to that knowledge.

My intentions are right now to acquire a capture card so I'm not dependent on Mr. Wah for capturing footage since he's already stretched for time with his full-time job but I would also feel guilty by taking advantage of him by having him record all this footage since this is a project I would really like to take on. I will be dependent on an old internet friend to translate our English script into a Japanese one but I can narrate in Japanese so long as what I'm reading is Roman-ized.

I'd like to start out with very basic stuff (explaining the buttons and performing moves), work into basic gameplay, stuns, normal hit/counter hit/high-counter hit, launching, juggling, slow-escaping, the wall, the ground, frame data, movement (I personally suck at moving), specific tools for each character and anything else you can think of. Please feel free to suggest anything and everything. I'm completely dependent on everyone's knowledge here. In regards to specific tools for each character, I could probably do a video per character. Heck, to mix things up we could throw a characters' tools in between simpler items to keep interest with current DOA players.

Who would be willing to help me put together a script for a first episode?

Topics of discussion as of 7/19 will include:
  • The buttons: :P: :K: :F:
  • Directional Inputs :1: :2: :3: :4: :6: :7: :8: :9:
  • Performing moves/strings
  • Counter Holds
  • Throws
  • Throw Escape
  • Catch Throws
  • Normal Hit, Counter Hit and High-Counter Hit
  • Stuns
  • Launching
  • Basic juggling
  • Free Canceling
  • Advanced juggling with the free cancel
  • the Ground
  • the Wall
  • Slow-escaping
  • Dashing
  • Frame Data
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
I'd be willing to chime in whenever I can. I can also read Japanese Hiragana/Katakana as well if needed.

To be clear though, we shouldn't use decriptions such as "why 3.1 is the better game." but more so that "why 3.1 appeals more to the Western World". There is a difference.
 

Berzerk!

Well-Known Member
Try out this MVC guide for comparison.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Marvel_vs_Capcom_3

Take a look at Virtuafighter.com and click through to its Wiki - amazing resource.

For DOA there are patchwork resources for a lot of this so I think you could trawl the strategy forums of DOAC and gather a reasonable basis. I remember I wrote an intro guide to how the DOA system works for an uninitiated audience that was used on the CGS ... I'll look to see if I still have it (really an explanation of the basics, would serve as an intro but not comprehensive on gameplay systems)
 

Berzerk!

Well-Known Member
I'd be willing to chime in whenever I can. I can also read Japanese Hiragana/Katakana as well if needed.

To be clear though, we shouldn't use decriptions such as "why 3.1 is the better game." but more so that "why 3.1 appeals more to the Western World". There is a difference.

Agree - I'd go further and remove any kind of bias... even the title of this thread is going to throw us off a bit. It may be true of Team Ninja compared to regular players, but its a negative place to start from.

As a neutral guide we should be informational about the systems available in each game and make statements like "this wakeup system on the wall is preferred by most players"

Even that though is less informational and more conjectural debate, which may have its place once the different systems in each DOA game are explained, you could definitely have a roundtable of players discussing and comparing them on their merits; as a separate video/podcast to a "how to play" or "how DOA works" video (could be in the same series)
 

grap3fruitman

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Agree - I'd go further and remove any kind of bias... even the title of this thread is going to throw us off a bit. It may be true of Team Ninja compared to regular players, but its a negative place to start from.
I completely disagree. Team Ninja doesn't know how to play DOA, their entire mindset with Dimensions was "There were no issues with DOA4." That's a complete misunderstanding of the game. My intention isn't to go "DOA4 sucks, DOAD sucks." It's to say "3.1 is better for these reasons; example, example, comparison, etc" in video form. DOA3.1 isn't perfect either and I intend to start out with mentioning that in the opening. A basic explanation of DOA3.1, what it is and why it's preferred. By changing the message like you're suggesting from "Here are these issues and why" to "Well, it'd be nice if you could change this" you soften the blow of the message and make it seem like these aren't big concerns when they should be.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't mind and I'd like to help you. I have to get a better cap card myself, so for now I really can't help on getting footage. Unless there is something else that needs to be done outside of recording videos?
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
I completely disagree. ... By changing the message like you're suggesting from "Here are these issues and why" to "Well, it'd be nice if you could change this" you soften the blow of the message and make it seem like these aren't big concerns when they should be.

The point is, there's a difference between saying "X is better than Y. period." and "The reasons I enjoy X more than Y is because...". One blocks discussion, the other opens it. The US is really the only region that prefers DOA3.1 over the other versions. There are a few in Europe who enjoy DOA3 (3.2 to them - but most over there don't know the differences), but from my experience with the international community most feel it was broken.

This is where instead of talking just about DOA3, you can refer to how the series progressed and why we presume changes to the system were made and what each iteration brings to the table. DOA3 and DOA2 are much alike and a lot of system design carried over, only tweaks were done to separate the iterations. Explaining what you enjoyed about each requires you to dissect it more and lead the viewer's up to decide which they prefer more as well without having to tell them which they should prefer. That one is good and one is bad is tasteless, when both are good but with different tastes and fighting game mindsets required.
 

virtuaPAI

I am the reason why you are here!!!
Staff member
Administrator
This is where instead of talking just about DOA3, you can refer to how the series progressed and why we presume changes to the system were made and what each iteration brings to the table. DOA3 and DOA2 are much alike and a lot of system design carried over, only tweaks were done to separate the iterations. Explaining what you enjoyed about each requires you to dissect it more and lead the viewer's up to decide which they prefer more as well without having to tell them which they should prefer. That one is good and one is bad is tasteless, when both are good but with different tastes and fighting game mindsets required.

-I like this direction. Both Doa2 and Doa3 are good games. Incorporating the two will bring a greater understanding as to why this form of gameplay is not only preferred, but have been proven to be more successful in competitive circuits.
 

Red dragon

Member
i agree.

Doa2u had a excellent tag system and doa3 seems like a good game nontheless. I can throw in my opinion as well when it comes down to the basics as well. I dont mind helping.
 

Berzerk!

Well-Known Member
I'm still not convinced that they can see no issues with DOA4 in context of discussion about DOAD, because their entire frame for DOAD was to simply tweak DOA4 (least amount of design work). If you look at DOAD as a refinement of DOA4, it is quite successful.

As a true successor that advances the gameplay of the DOA series, it does not do that, but that was not its aim. You have to keep the product goal in mind when discussing it.

Criticisms of the most recent games have plenty of merit, but we have to be careful about using these as signposts to the whole design philosophy and competency of Team Ninja.

I think Mr. Wah's expounding of my point about opening discussion is great.

If we openly discuss each of the games in this way you can break things down informatively and it would be cool to see something like:
1: What the specific gameplay changes were.
2: What other changes were linked to these/happened in the same iteration and how they relate.
3: Provide information on how players responded factually in terms of player behaviour in-game. For example, the generalisation of DOA4 that players played with Defensive behaviours - there are specifics you can raise like "because of the ability to escape situation A, players have tended to make certain types of choices, such as favouring spacing and whiff punishment over string completion. This is seen in this tournament match...[Youtube example/anecdote]"
4: Player discussion on these effect.
 

grap3fruitman

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
All right, can everyone list topics that should be discussed in a list?

I'll create a master list in the original post and then we'll break up the list based on what episode I'll be discussing them. Then I'll work on a script for the first episode.

Things I can think of:
  • The buttons: :P: :K: :F:
  • Directional Inputs :1: :2: :3: :4: :6: :7: :8: :9:
  • Performing moves/strings
  • Counter Holds
  • Throws
  • Throw Escape
  • Catch Throws
  • Normal Hit, Counter Hit and High-Counter Hit
  • Stuns
  • Launching
  • Basic juggling
  • Free Canceling
  • Advanced juggling with the free cancel
  • the Ground
  • the Wall
  • Slow-escaping
  • Dashing
  • Frame Data
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Things I can think of:
  • The buttons: :P: :K: :F:
  • Directional Inputs :1: :2: :3: :4: :6: :7: :8: :9:
  • Performing moves/strings
  • Counter Holds
  • Throws
  • Throw Escape
  • Catch Throws
  • Normal Hit, Counter Hit and High-Counter Hit
  • Stuns
  • Launching
  • Basic juggling
  • Free Canceling
  • Advanced juggling with the free cancel
  • the Ground
  • the Wall
  • Slow-escaping
  • Dashing
  • Frame Data

Seems like you have listed everything to go over in the videos. The triangle system can be discussed, but I think they know that information already. Still it can be discussed because other things on this list they should already know too.
 
ALL DOA6 DOA5 DOA4 DOA3 DOA2U DOAD
Top