NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
Do you have a link? I'd like to have a look at it.
Something I'd like people to start testing...
- Thread starter Rikuto
- Start date
Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
I think it's worth a try honestly. Like there is decent damage but for the way you are able to get out of situations and you have a wake up kick that makes you back off or try something to avoid it. Having a smaller life setting would force players to actually have some form of defense.
I can tell you first hand that balance is not an issue in the slightest because the less guessing you have to do the better. The thing with Jann Lee is he has a standard stun > launch game but if he dabbles with the stun game his damage goes up substantially.
The better the player the harder Hayabusa has to work and he has to play a mid range poking game. He has a couple of shots to take a good chunk of life or try to shenanigan you to death. On average when Hayabusa stuns you he launches you and get about 20-30% unless he plays with the stun system then he gets maybe 40%-45% depending on environment.
Hitomi has to get you to the wall before she gets truly scary. Her stun launch game is practically non-existent unless someone is countering mindlessly. So her going for a quick knockdown doesn't do much good because she has to back off anyway because of the wake up kick.
With a lower life setting it might actually phase out wake up kicks and force good defensive from players. Making better reads rather than holding and hoping for the best because you know even if you mess up you still have 3-4 tries left. You will be more like "Okay I just messed up big right there. . .I'm 1-2 bad reads from losing". This will make you have better spacing, poking, and overall defense which is something I think would help the image of the game in general. Will be a lot less holding (at higher levels) and the punishment will mean a bit more.
I can tell you first hand that balance is not an issue in the slightest because the less guessing you have to do the better. The thing with Jann Lee is he has a standard stun > launch game but if he dabbles with the stun game his damage goes up substantially.
The better the player the harder Hayabusa has to work and he has to play a mid range poking game. He has a couple of shots to take a good chunk of life or try to shenanigan you to death. On average when Hayabusa stuns you he launches you and get about 20-30% unless he plays with the stun system then he gets maybe 40%-45% depending on environment.
Hitomi has to get you to the wall before she gets truly scary. Her stun launch game is practically non-existent unless someone is countering mindlessly. So her going for a quick knockdown doesn't do much good because she has to back off anyway because of the wake up kick.
With a lower life setting it might actually phase out wake up kicks and force good defensive from players. Making better reads rather than holding and hoping for the best because you know even if you mess up you still have 3-4 tries left. You will be more like "Okay I just messed up big right there. . .I'm 1-2 bad reads from losing". This will make you have better spacing, poking, and overall defense which is something I think would help the image of the game in general. Will be a lot less holding (at higher levels) and the punishment will mean a bit more.
FakeSypha
Well-Known Member
Well, considering most lobbies are set to largest and 99 seconds (or even infinite time), it's no surprise to me :S
SilverKhaos
Active Member
Eh... I keep it on largest health because I WANT the fights to go on and on. I just enjoy fighting, and i want it to go on as long as possible.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
Thnx for posting that. Basically the numbers need to be rounded in a way to see what's kind of realistic in the real setting.. Assuming these are comparable juggles for everyone, let's see...
Smallest bar... Gen Fu, Busa and Kasumi basically need two launchers to beat the opponent. Brad needs, well, you could say also two, if he gets a few pokes or a grab in there, which is reasonable. So that's pretty balanced. Unless he uses 214P, in which case he needs 3 launchers instead of two.
Small bar.. Same for Gen Fu, Busa and Kasumi since they still need two launchers, but Brad now needs to always use 3 launchers, which puts him at a disadvantage compared to smallest.
Normal bar.. Basically same situation as above, provided the three get a poke in there.
Large bar.. Gen Fu and Busa are around 2 launchers if they get a few pokes in, Kasumi is more akin towards 3 launchers. Brad is also leaning towards 3 launchers if he gets a few pokes in there and refrains from using 214P.
Largest bar.. Gen fu, Busa and Kasumi all need 3 launchers, while Brad needs 4.
So I guess it's safe to conclude that the smallest bar is the most balanced in terms of pure launch damage output. The bigger the health bar, the more the lack of Brad works against him. Now I'm curious to see how this translates to DOA5. Basically if something is lacking in terms of damage, it will only creep up the larger the health bar is. However.. This calculation makes sense for DOA4 since everyone was basically the same, but, for DOA5 it might be another story since there is more to take into account.
Ace Flibble
Member
I like it as it is in DOA5. I think there's a good reason why in DOA4 a lot of people set matches to Large or Largest life. If you look at games with inherently lower life, such as the Namco fighters, one common complaint is that matches can be over in effectively two moves and games in general do not last long enough.
I can't say I ever really felt the need for more life in DOA4 - I always ran it set to Normal - but I completely understand those that do want to play with more health and though having more health isn't one of the things I personally would have thought DOA5 needed, playing with it I do not mind it in the slightest and I really feel the damage balance in DOA5 is better than any previous game in the series.
But hey, if someone wants to play with life set to Small and have 5/6ths of their health taken off in one counter throw from me, be my guest.
I can't say I ever really felt the need for more life in DOA4 - I always ran it set to Normal - but I completely understand those that do want to play with more health and though having more health isn't one of the things I personally would have thought DOA5 needed, playing with it I do not mind it in the slightest and I really feel the damage balance in DOA5 is better than any previous game in the series.
But hey, if someone wants to play with life set to Small and have 5/6ths of their health taken off in one counter throw from me, be my guest.
This bit needs to be standard. There is nothing more grating to me than some utter git getting in one poke then running away to win on time. Cut out the timer and those borings sods need to mount an offence.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
We should all be playing in whatever the tourney standards are set. I'm currently playing in Normal // 60 seconds and avoid Large and Largest like a plague. Time is part of the strategy as well. I can't count how many times I've won important DOA2U, 3 and 4 matches because of the time.
Actually when I made one people joined immediately.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
We don't have the power to increase the damage. We're not devs.
We DO have the power to change the life settings as players, though.
edit: playing smallest with Zeo Rebirth right now. He said himself it feels like a totally different game, matches are way more intense. I agree.
HoodsXx
Well-Known Member
I tried it on small settings, with JDE423, with my Pai, and Rikuto is definitely right. He usually kind of holds randomly sometimes, but realized that he needed to space a lot more, as did I, since I could tell that one combo from Kasumi could = almost half hp. It's definitely a different feel, and I enjoyed it. Definitely makes you more aware of EVERYTHING that's around you, instead of just having the mentality of "Meh, a little combo won't be that bad, I still have a lot more hp to come back".
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
i need to try more small.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Smallest even better =)
Zeo just managed to do a 75% juggle on me with Hayate on Fuel by using the breakable crates. Good use of environment, killer payoff. Most importantly, it made Hayate not look like a bitch.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
rikuto....i think you're going too far.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Don't knock it til you try it, sir.
Same kind of damage scaling in Tekken, VF5FS and SCV. The only difference is the inclusion of the hold system. The intensity of a match is beautiful.
LOL.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Tourneys standards were set before the game was even released... because you have to start with something. The initial standard is not always the best standard however, and if change is ever going to come you have to start somewhere. Now is the time to experiment.
Right now I'm not even talking about changing the standard... yet. I just want people to actually try it, and see if its something they can get comfortable with. If they can, and if it is preferred, then things can change.
After a few days, I prefer smallest immensely. It is very, very familiar in damage scale to Tekken, SCV, VF5FS and most importantly DOA 3.1.
Everything that can damage you hurts like hell, and I find myself actually using my brain a good 87% more during a match. It brings more importance to the neutral game and less to the stun game.
I gotta say Im kinda liking it. Definitely up's the stakes a bit. Kinda like watching heavyweights in MMA as opposed to most feather/bantamweights.
MMA fans should know what I mean. HW fights to me are always 100% more entertaining because the power that they all possess makes it so that the fight can be over with the slightest miscue mistake. Whereas the lighter guys usually have alot more room for error and pitter-patter BS.
Im not too sure about the technical aspects of specific character matchups and such yet since I dont have enough experience with all the characters but from a general excitement and overall fun aspect so far im digging it.