Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Haha yeah thats true, i was actually thinking about which build this was.
Team NINJA does a 33-man Developer Tournament
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
- Start date
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Yeah but who cares right. As long as we utilize the game mechanics. The devs could suck as much as they want, and most of the time, they arent even good.
For whatever reason developers always suck at their own game.
MeanMrMustard
Active Member
The problem is they took away some of those mechanics. I'd be fine if they played like this and the game played more like the E3 build. It's clear that their lower-mid level play has affected high level play. The extra hits required to CB (allowing more chances to hold, which we see they both love to do while stunned), removing many sit down stuns until much later or just on crouching opponents, removing many 3in1s and 2in1s (making the hold more prevalent again), removing guaranteed damage/set ups (Bass' pick up just to name one), and the lack of frame advantage/safe moves (which should be in the game, especially since there is a viable sidestep) were all probably changes that resulted from their lack of understanding and/or lower level mindset approach to the game.
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Yeah i pretty much agree about all that. Especially the safe moves, we need more. Its really annoying to punish the offensive player so heavily. Most games become lame quick jab matches, or waiting for someone to just slip up. But the Bass one im ok with, because it did seem a little bit to strong. But at least this isnt as bad as the DOA4 changes.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
It was not a "little bit to strong" it was fine the way it was. That change was not neccessary.
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Yeah maybe i dont know much about Bass, maybe since most of the video's that i have seen from Bass were from Mr. Wah and he was dominating with Bass.
What tier do you think he is now, and was that tool really that detrimental now that its gone.
His tier placement is based on what options other characters have, and right now his main trouble match ups are still Kasumi and Jann Lee. I'm fine with those being his trouble match ups as that's really just expected. What I'm not fine with is taking away his main tool for pressure. A tool that doesn't guarantee anything and does no damage. It's one of the main reasons he was so bad in DOA4 and they've gone and returned him to damn near close to that status.
Just because people saw me on stream beating up someone who hadn't really played the game that well on one of Bass' best stages doesn't mean that he's god tier. Keep in mind that I did not win that tournament and lost my first set to a Kasumi player and second loss to a Jann Lee.
Bass' pick-up grants him a front facing frame advantage that's +11. His fastest attack period is i12 but it's a high that doesn't string or juggle, and his fastest mid is i14. Compare that to Kasumi's i9 high string combo and i11 mids and you can see he's not supposed to win on speed of attacks. Hell, half of his strings can be guarded mid string even if he attacks (3KP on cb i'm looking at you) or even held on reaction. His stats show this that 'attacks' are a 1/5. So he has a tool that does no damage, pushes the opponent far enough away that the fastest attack with enough range he can do is i16 meaning the opponent has 5 frames of movement available to them. The throw was granting him a way to fight fast speed characters. It was following his stats and allowed him pressure while still allowing the opponent a way out.
Seriously, I can't tell you how stupid this nerf is and how pissed off I am.
Meanwhile, Hayabusa gets to KEEP his AIR attacking 3H+K // PP4PK which not only gives +9 on guard break, can't be interrupted with anything but a mid kick hold, gives him a knockdown mix-up, but is also a visibly linear AIR attack that TRACKS.
Yeah. Balance. pft.
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Ohh ok, got it. That kinda sucks then. So what exactly did they take away from Bass? Is his guaranteed follow up from some throws gone?
GLoRToR
Active Member
You know, I wish more companies actually did this; not just shove a character list in your face and then let you wonder if any of them are over~ or underpowered, but instead they go and showcase and exhibit and tell you how each character was intended to be played and what their weaknesses and strengths are.
I really have high hopes in DoA5 that it won't be another 3-Character game but instead a solid cast of which all are playable.
EDIT: I think it's too early to speculate matchups and nerfs even if there are similarities with the previous game. From what I understand they changed around every character, maybe we'll indeed have a balanced game. Or I'll go back to DoTA2 again.
I really have high hopes in DoA5 that it won't be another 3-Character game but instead a solid cast of which all are playable.
EDIT: I think it's too early to speculate matchups and nerfs even if there are similarities with the previous game. From what I understand they changed around every character, maybe we'll indeed have a balanced game. Or I'll go back to DoTA2 again.
chocogerman777
Well-Known Member
It's looking that bad for real?
MaxwellMouse
Active Member
I really hope not. I think that is hyperbole. Even if the game ends up not not reaching it's full potential it still looks a nice improvement over DOA4.
If you're aiming to be 'better than DOA4', then that is a very very low mark to aim for.
