Tomonobu Itagaki On Dead or Alive 5: “My Daughter Was Totally Ruined”

[just_me]

What, made hold windows smaller? All that does is HELP the person holding because if they whiff they aren't left helpless as long.

Waste of effort, but I still fell like pointing out that this is simply wrong... they decreased the active frames, but increased the recovery so that holds last at least as long as previously. Also window for dmg modifiers is quite a bit smaller, which most likely has an impact on the average hold dmg.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Personally I don't think you should be able to hold in stun until the recovery frames of the attack that hit you expire to avoid the just-frame hold situations if you free canceled the string.

 

[Malesoun]

I think a better way to make the distinction is that while doa5 just has Stages, does 2-4 had full Environments.

Completely disagree, DoA4's stages were not full environments at all. In terms of depth, the tiered stages in DoA4 and 5 are as much "environments" as one another.

I do wonder if people that lament over previous DoA games do so with Rose tinted glasses. DoA4 was not a welcoming experience at all, the CPU difficulty was ridiculous (Itakagi himself admits that this is so) and that, in my eyes, did more harm than the multi-player aspects ever did. If I remember rightly, DoA4's online was Dead only a few years post release, a complete and utter contrast to 5 now!

 

[Argentus]

Completely disagree, DoA4's stages were not full environments at all. In terms of depth, the tiered stages in DoA4 and 5 are as much "environments" as one another.

I do wonder if people that lament over previous DoA games do so with Rose tinted glasses. DoA4 was not a welcoming experience at all, the CPU difficulty was ridiculous (Itakagi himself admits that this is so) and that, in my eyes, did more harm than the multi-player aspects ever did. If I remember rightly, DoA4's online was Dead only a few years post release, a complete and utter contrast to 5 now!

I still pop in DOA4 occasionally, and i still love it. Still a much prettier game than DOA5, much more enjoyable stages much better....everything except face graphics and some mechanic tweaks. WAY better stages with a few exceptions. That ssaying something, i wasn't even that huge a fan of DOA4's stages before, but DOA5 stages make them look glorious.

The AI...thats just a thing with all fighting games. I accept it.

Also, DOA4 didn't have Core Fighters lol. That made a world of difference.

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

I still pop in DOA4 occasionally, and i still love it. Still a much prettier game than DOA5, much more enjoyable stages much better....everything except face graphics and some mechanic tweaks. WAY better stages with a few exceptions. That ssaying something, i wasn't even that huge a fan of DOA4's stages before, but DOA5 stages make them look glorious.

The AI...thats just a thing with all fighting games. I accept it.

Also, DOA4 didn't have Core Fighters lol. That made a world of difference.

I still play DOA4 too, I love the club stage with the remixes, is one of my fav things from this game. That, and the replays and the quotes is another thing that I miss so much in DOA5. And of course DOA4.0 Hayate. I reverted this game to the pre-patch just to play him.
BTW, what's wrong with Core Fighters?

 

[Argentus]

I still play DOA4 too, I love the club stage with the remixes, is one of my fav things from this game. That, and the replays and the quotes is another thing that I miss so much in DOA5. And of course DOA4.0 Hayate. I reverted this game to the pre-patch just to play him.
BTW, what's wrong with Core Fighters?

nothing, i was just saying core fighters really helped DOA5 get and stay alive, by making it more accessible for people to try out.

I miss the seaside marketplace, techno club, the eternal opera hallways, vegas strip, the halo station (reskin it, TN, I loved the layout!), cherry blossom stage where you could cross either side of the bridge or go down into the canal, etc. Those are what I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Corvo792]

I haven't touched DOA4 in years; it was just an awful, awful fighting game. It's shocking to me that people still look on it fondly, lol. I mean, half the posts on this site are about the pretty costumes anyway, so I suppose there's your answer as to why.

And I couldn't care less how pretty it looked; the combat system was terrible. DOA5 and DOA5U are just leaps and bounds above DOA4 in just about every aspect.

Pretty colors and backgrounds are mostly secondary factors for me. DOA4 was shallow and lacked depth. Itagaki has no leg to stand on

 

[Argentus]

I haven't touched DOA4 in years; it was just an awful, awful fighting game. It's shocking to me that people still look on it fondly, lol. I mean, half the posts on this site are about the pretty costumes anyway, so I suppose there's your answer as to why.

And I couldn't care less how pretty it looked; the combat system was terrible. DOA5 and DOA5U are just leaps and bounds above DOA4 in just about every aspect.

Pretty colors and backgrounds are mostly secondary factors for me. DOA4 was shallow and lacked depth. Itagaki has no leg to stand on

Whereas while DoA5 has slightly better mechanics, it is also ugly, dull, and lifeless.

DOA4, by comparison, may not have been as technical a game, but it was an absolute work of art, and I think most people would love for that aesthetic to return.

Not to mention, aesthetics aside, the stages in DOA5 are terrible, as are the force techs and Power Whatevers.

As I've said before, the new team or whatever happened, did a great job making a fighter. But they utterly failed to make a Dead Or Alive game.

I play DOA4, I have a blast. I play DOA5, I get bored.

 

[Corvo792]

Explain, why do force techs and power "whatevers" suck? And how are they worse than the rock, paper, scissors of DOA4?

You obviously prioritize aesthetics over mechanics, which is your prerogative. :shrug: DOA4 was as shallow as they come and it showed.

 

[Argentus]

Explain, why do force techs and power "whatevers" suck? And how are they worse than the rock, paper, scissors of DOA4?

You obviously prioritize aesthetics over mechanics, which is your prerogative. :shrug: DOA4 was as shallow as they come and it showed.

Force techs encourage people to just mindlessly rushdown, removing the strategic element due to virtually no fear of punishment, and power blows/launchers (mostly critbursts) leads to people just trying to spam setups for them. Not to mention they look utterly retarded.

lol @ "rock paper scissors" though.


I prioritize a good game over a bad one. DOA4's mechanics werent as refined, but it was overall a better game to me. DOA5 was just halfassed across the board.

If you have to compare, GTA4 vs Saints Row2 (or 3, whichever was out at the time). GTA4 was a more technically sound game, but Saints Row 2 was just a better GAME in almost every possible way, while GTA4 was a boring, ugly piece of shit by comparison.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Force techs encourage people to just mindlessly rushdown, removing the strategic element due to virtually no fear of punishment, and power blows/launchers (mostly critbursts) leads to people just trying to spam setups for them. Not to mention they look utterly retarded.

I'll give you a tip: Force Techs were started in DOA4, and the system was more abusive of them. It's what some people want DOA5's ground system to revert back to. So if you think 5's force-tech system is bad, you obviously haven't played DOA4 recently as you claim. In DOA4 you had untechables so at the end of the juggle you could force tech them off the ground guaranteed into a guaranteed unholdable attack. In DOA5U they nerfed the untechables but brought back the unholdables so you can at least have the mind games and reads to play the "will he/won't he tech?" meta.

As for PBs/Launchers requiring people to "Spam setups", it's not much different than DOA4 forcing you with every character to play the stun game to get a decent launch into untechable into unholdable into stun game repeat.

So either you can complain that DOA5 is unpleasing from either an aesthetic point of view or from a game mechanic point of view, but I do not believe you can say both.

 

[Corvo792]

Force techs encourage people to just mindlessly rushdown, removing the strategic element due to virtually no fear of punishment, and power blows/launchers (mostly critbursts) leads to people just trying to spam setups for them. Not to mention they look utterly retarded.

lol @ "rock paper scissors" though.


I prioritize a good game over a bad one. DOA4's mechanics werent as refined, but it was overall a better game to me. DOA5 was just halfassed across the board.

If you have to compare, GTA4 vs Saints Row2 (or 3, whichever was out at the time). GTA4 was a more technically sound game, but Saints Row 2 was just a better GAME in almost every possible way, while GTA4 was a boring, ugly piece of shit by comparison.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about if you thought DOA5's force techs are problematic and ignore their factor in DOA4. I can't and won't take any of your posts seriously.

 

[Argentus]

I'll give you a tip: Force Techs were started in DOA4, and the system was more abusive of them. It's what some people want DOA5's ground system to revert back to. So if you think 5's force-tech system is bad, you obviously haven't played DOA4 recently as you claim. In DOA4 you had untechables so at the end of the juggle you could force tech them off the ground guaranteed into a guaranteed unholdable attack. In DOA5U they nerfed the untechables but brought back the unholdables so you can at least have the mind games and reads to play the "will he/won't he tech?" meta.

As for PBs/Launchers requiring people to "Spam setups", it's not much different than DOA4 forcing you with every character to play the stun game to get a decent launch into untechable into unholdable into stun game repeat.

So either you can complain that DOA5 is unpleasing from either an aesthetic point of view or from a game mechanic point of view, but I do not believe you can say both.

Then I apologize, I don't remember that (my copy was stolen and I only got another a couple years ago, and when I played online, I don't even remember Force techs being an issue)

I do remember how you could win entire matches with holds alone though lol.

 

[Kodachi]

"About the ruined games: DOA5 Series" [by Tomonobu Itagaki]

This is very important issue, so I am picking it up onto my wall. The original thread is here.
https://www.facebook.com/tomonobu.itagaki/posts/1512432799020833?pnref=story

Hi Girindra, my intention is to prevent misunderstandings made daily on my wall. Please understand that I do not have any other intentions to you.

It seems that some people misunderstand the DOA's situation. Needless to say, I love DOA and DOA fans because I and my fellows created this DOA universe from the scratch. But I have to say that DOA was ruined.

"DOA was ruined” - I can surely enumerate the numerous faults of DOA5 series here with precise analysis. DOA5 series have numerous problems. This is not my typo; I wrote "DOA5 SERIES" have many problems.
But I shouldn't make a list of the enormous blemish of DOA5 series for you guys here. If I do so, DOA universe will completely END in a single burst. That's not my wish. Not yours too, right? I’ve already done what I need to do. I told those problems/faults of DOA to DECENT people in the current Team NINJA. This is the reasonable manner along my philosophy.

Now I will write my answers to Girindra's questions. I don’t think four, only for among so many problems of DOA5 series, disclosed to public do not blow up DOA universe.

1) "What installment?"
Answer: All of these games are called as DOA5 blah, blah, blah. I can’t understand so many DOA5 blah, blah, blah exist in this game industry at all. Plus, All of them have different problems – this is real tragedy.

2) "The DLC?"
Answer: This is one of numerous mistakes of current Team NINJA with no doubt.

3) "The Character?"
Answer: I think you're talking about veneer of graphics. I never hate the improvements of graphics, but character setting are absolute shambles. If they wanted change it to such a HASH settings, they should have created totally different game series.

4) "Fan Service?"
Answer: Fan Service? If you are not using the word, Fan-Service, sarcastically, I would say I can't find any fan services at all in DOA5.
What I can see is dirty tricks which finagle money out of loyal DOA fans.

.
That's all I want to say for now.
Bitters do good to the stomach; the best advice is always the hardest to take.
https://www.facebook.com/tomonobu.itagaki/posts/1513962288867884

 

[Argentus]

"About the ruined games: DOA5 Series" [by Tomonobu Itagaki]

This is very important issue, so I am picking it up onto my wall. The original thread is here.
https://www.facebook.com/tomonobu.itagaki/posts/1512432799020833?pnref=story

Hi Girindra, my intention is to prevent misunderstandings made daily on my wall. Please understand that I do not have any other intentions to you.

It seems that some people misunderstand the DOA's situation. Needless to say, I love DOA and DOA fans because I and my fellows created this DOA universe from the scratch. But I have to say that DOA was ruined.

"DOA was ruined” - I can surely enumerate the numerous faults of DOA5 series here with precise analysis. DOA5 series have numerous problems. This is not my typo; I wrote "DOA5 SERIES" have many problems.
But I shouldn't make a list of the enormous blemish of DOA5 series for you guys here. If I do so, DOA universe will completely END in a single burst. That's not my wish. Not yours too, right? I’ve already done what I need to do. I told those problems/faults of DOA to DECENT people in the current Team NINJA. This is the reasonable manner along my philosophy.

Now I will write my answers to Girindra's questions. I don’t think four, only for among so many problems of DOA5 series, disclosed to public do not blow up DOA universe.

1) "What installment?"
Answer: All of these games are called as DOA5 blah, blah, blah. I can’t understand so many DOA5 blah, blah, blah exist in this game industry at all. Plus, All of them have different problems – this is real tragedy.

2) "The DLC?"
Answer: This is one of numerous mistakes of current Team NINJA with no doubt.

3) "The Character?"
Answer: I think you're talking about veneer of graphics. I never hate the improvements of graphics, but character setting are absolute shambles. If they wanted change it to such a HASH settings, they should have created totally different game series.

4) "Fan Service?"
Answer: Fan Service? If you are not using the word, Fan-Service, sarcastically, I would say I can't find any fan services at all in DOA5.
What I can see is dirty tricks which finagle money out of loyal DOA fans.

.
That's all I want to say for now.
Bitters do good to the stomach; the best advice is always the hardest to take.
https://www.facebook.com/tomonobu.itagaki/posts/1513962288867884

Assuming I'm not misunderstanding the translated responses, its hard to argue with him.

 

[Malesoun]

Finagle money?

Seriously?

This guy seems to forget that games development is a business, all businesses are out to "finagle" money out of their customers.

He is jealous, jealous of the fact that someone took his work, and the work of others, and improved it, made it more financially lucrative. Probably thinking about the bonuses he could have had now, had he not thrown his toys out of the pram years ago.

 

[Kronin]

"About the ruined games: DOA5 Series" [by Tomonobu Itagaki]

This is very important issue, so I am picking it up onto my wall. The original thread is here.
https://www.facebook.com/tomonobu.itagaki/posts/1512432799020833?pnref=story

Hi Girindra, my intention is to prevent misunderstandings made daily on my wall. Please understand that I do not have any other intentions to you.

It seems that some people misunderstand the DOA's situation. Needless to say, I love DOA and DOA fans because I and my fellows created this DOA universe from the scratch. But I have to say that DOA was ruined.

"DOA was ruined” - I can surely enumerate the numerous faults of DOA5 series here with precise analysis. DOA5 series have numerous problems. This is not my typo; I wrote "DOA5 SERIES" have many problems.
But I shouldn't make a list of the enormous blemish of DOA5 series for you guys here. If I do so, DOA universe will completely END in a single burst. That's not my wish. Not yours too, right? I’ve already done what I need to do. I told those problems/faults of DOA to DECENT people in the current Team NINJA. This is the reasonable manner along my philosophy.

Now I will write my answers to Girindra's questions. I don’t think four, only for among so many problems of DOA5 series, disclosed to public do not blow up DOA universe.

1) "What installment?"
Answer: All of these games are called as DOA5 blah, blah, blah. I can’t understand so many DOA5 blah, blah, blah exist in this game industry at all. Plus, All of them have different problems – this is real tragedy.

2) "The DLC?"
Answer: This is one of numerous mistakes of current Team NINJA with no doubt.

3) "The Character?"
Answer: I think you're talking about veneer of graphics. I never hate the improvements of graphics, but character setting are absolute shambles. If they wanted change it to such a HASH settings, they should have created totally different game series.

4) "Fan Service?"
Answer: Fan Service? If you are not using the word, Fan-Service, sarcastically, I would say I can't find any fan services at all in DOA5.
What I can see is dirty tricks which finagle money out of loyal DOA fans.

.
That's all I want to say for now.
Bitters do good to the stomach; the best advice is always the hardest to take.
https://www.facebook.com/tomonobu.itagaki/posts/1513962288867884

I'm sorry Itagaki-San but this is the classic "not answer" that you can easily get when you are discussing a topic online with someone that can hide himself under text. The fact that you are adding silly statements as "to write everything could make collpase the Doa universe" in the best online flaming style, is not exactly helping your thesis.

I'm sure that he has his own reasons and that maybe he don't want blame too much online the current Team NINJA (even if actually he acts often unrespectful of them, but after all this is part of his persona), but if he disclose them in a such way seems just that he is only admitting that could be for the most personal ones dictated from a jealousy toward the success got from the DoA5 series.

Anyway seems that Itagaki could answer today if you contact him about DoA (he wrote that today he has some free time) by the way I don't think that he will be more clear on his statements (at least not publicly): https://www.facebook.com/tomonobu.itagaki/posts/1513962288867884

 

[Argentus]

is nobody paying attention to what he's saying? He's not "jealous because doa is more popular". He's unhappy with the dlc practices, artistic direction, and general watering down of the quality of DOA. Probably not happy with some of the changes to the mechanics either, but thats whatever.

yaknow, all the same shit the doa community has been complaining about.

 

[Kronin]

is nobody paying attention to what he's saying? He's not "jealous because doa is more popular". He's unhappy with the dlc practices, artistic direction, and general watering down of the quality of DOA. Probably not happy with some of the changes to the mechanics either, but thats whatever.

yaknow, all the same shit the doa community has been complaining about.

From his lines I can only realize how he is unhappy with the DLC practices (that by the way is not a fault of TN but of TK) and of the artistic direction (even if he didn't say exactly why he see it wrong: if this is only because the anime look is his personal preference, he has all the rights to defend his opinion, but this isn't more true of an equivalent opposite one).

On the opposite he stated more times that the list of problems for the Doa5 series is endless... but without ever depicting it:

I can surely enumerate the numerous faults of DOA5 series here with precise analysis.

But I shouldn't make a list of the enormous blemish of DOA5 series for you guys here. If I do so, DOA universe will completely END in a single burst.

I’ve already done what I need to do. I told those problems/faults of DOA to DECENT people in the current Team NINJA. This is the reasonable manner along my philosophy.

. I don’t think four, only for among so many problems of DOA5 series, disclosed to public do not blow up DOA universe.

All of them have different problems – this is real tragedy.

This is one of numerous mistakes of current Team NINJA

I'm not stating that he is surely jealous but then why to not express clearly your thoughts? People asked you clarifications for a previous statement, you decided to give them just for using again an ambiguous tone.

And no, I don't think that it could destroy the space-time continuum, so not be afraid to do it.

 

[David Gregg]

1) "What installment?"
Answer: All of these games are called as DOA5 blah, blah, blah. I can’t understand so many DOA5 blah, blah, blah exist in this game industry at all. Plus, All of them have different problems – this is real tragedy.

This argument can already be tossed out the window as we know how many versions DOA2 had. In truth, only vanilla 5 and 5U are the versions where players had to rebuy another 5 for the same console. 5+ was for Vita, 5LR is for X1/PS4/PC. As I've said over and over again, last gen players are getting 5U with 2 new characters. That is not a new game in my book.

2) "The DLC?"
Answer: This is one of numerous mistakes of current Team NINJA with no doubt.

Fair. Should have mentioned Tecmo Koei as well though since they are a driving factor for this. Although this is more of a reflection of the gaming industry in general.

3) "The Character?"
Answer: I think you're talking about veneer of graphics. I never hate the improvements of graphics, but character setting are absolute shambles. If they wanted change it to such a HASH settings, they should have created totally different game series.

I don't understand what he's saying here. But the consensus players have already come to is that the characters have never looked better than in this game. The characters look more realistic but still have traits that make them easily recognizable for those transitioning from 4-5.

4) "Fan Service?"
Answer: Fan Service? If you are not using the word, Fan-Service, sarcastically, I would say I can't find any fan services at all in DOA5.
What I can see is dirty tricks which finagle money out of loyal DOA fans.

This goes back to his DLC opinion since there's no way he could be referring to the actual "fan service" content when he himself is just as, if not more guilty of creating the hundreds of bikinis and fetish outfits we've seen in 1-4 and the Xtreme series.

tl;dr None of these answers have any substance to them. Not to mention he's only focusing on the superficial aspects of 5 with no mention of gameplay so it's sad that these were the factors that "ruined" the game for him.