Trouble with speed (Christie & Kasumi)

[Matt Ponton]

Seriously, I need help on this match up. I can honestly believe that at best this is a 4-6 match up in their favor.

Any help at all with these two will be a plus for me.

What do you do at round 1 fight? When at disadvantage? During string extensions?

In general, you won't land many normal throws due to both characters have players more often than not use the button instead of the button.

It feels like the only thing Bass has going for him on this matchup is his offensive holds, and out of his two standing OHs, one is only 1 or 2 frames faster than his power gong or mid pokes.

 

[UncleKitchener]

I got major problem with these match ups too. Personally, , , , and and SS are my starters and work okay for me. I think knowing their frame data also helps punishing things that are obviously unsafe.

Christie is susceptible to low throws/OH during her /. I think when you see her doing the step, there are a couple of frames you can react to that just go for a HC low OH, since she can't do much out of that. I could be wrong though, but this worked against the AI.

I'll have to do some testing offline.

Kasumi is a major problem, but that's just the nature of this game.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Yeah, I'm not expecting a secret technique that flips it to a 9-1 match up in Bass' favor. Any help will do, and I know a lot of my bad matches with them is just inexperience with their strings.

 

[UncleKitchener]

I guess it's time to start playing those characters.

 

[DR2K]

Speed characters are bullies against Bass. It's about the first hit really, but his weight is especially detremintal to juggles.

Christie is very high oriented, especially at the beginning of the round.

If I see you online we can play Chrsitie vs Bass.

 

[Koor]

Also having the worst time against these characters. The speed is blowing me away. Soon as the match begins, they get right in your face and from there its an uphill battle.

Kasumi is especially a pain for me because even if you knock her down for a pick up and not near a wall, she can backflip right out before i have a chance to attack (Im hoping this is just due to online lag, because otherwise WOW )

All in all i definitely need to study these 2 and get more experience, but even then this will still be a tough one.

 

[Chaos]

Seriously, I need help on this match up. I can honestly believe that at best this is a 4-6 match up in their favor.

Any help at all with these two will be a plus for me.

What do you do at round 1 fight? When at disadvantage? During string extensions?

In general, you won't land many normal throws due to both characters have players more often than not use the button instead of the button.

It feels like the only thing Bass has going for him on this matchup is his offensive holds, and out of his two standing OHs, one is only 1 or 2 frames faster than his power gong or mid pokes.

Bass can interrupt kasumi & christie by using I think thats the right input. Also back dashing & using his low dropkick & his may help but I could be wrong.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Well you basically listed his fastest high attack and his 2 better high crushing attacks. One's object (P+K) is basically speed to interrupt their speed. Even then they are still 4 frames faster than him and their mids are faster than his P+K. So yes, it's the most viable attack for interrupting, but it isn't necessarily going to beat them very often.

As for the lows you listed, both require proper spacing and a good read on them doing a high attack. So you have to be allowed to back off or get a good guess.

 

[Chaos]

One of Mr. Strong's best attacks are its really useful when it comes to whiff punishing & leaves him at +3 when its blocked.
another useful attack for whiff punishment & its relatively fast at 19 frames but it leaves him at 0 if its blocked. Ok
the best to win a match against Kasumi & Christie is proper spacing, try blocking the best you can & and use his quickest attacks
& also when you see your opponent whiffing the counter hold, throw their ass all over the place & watch them fly like a rag doll lol.

 

[Scornwell]

Christie greatly benefits from counter hits, especially ones mid string.
However, due to her un-safeness on hit, she can be grabbed out of a lot of her string on NH.
All of Christie's low attacks and strings leave her at enough disadvantage to be thrown. All of them.
If you play defensively, Christie will just open herself up to Bass's 4i throws.

 

[Awesmic]

Christie greatly benefits from counter hits, especially ones mid string.
However, due to her un-safeness on hit, she can be grabbed out of a lot of her string as well on NH.
All of Christie's low attacks and strings leave her at enough disadvantage to be thrown. All of them.
If you play defensively, Christie will just open herself up to Bass's 4i throws.

Unless some of her lows are out of range...

 

[UncleKitchener]

I just don't think Bass has a bad match up against Kasumi, so imo it's good to have a pocket fighter. After a while, it gets too mentally taxing.

How's the match up against Helena?

 

[Matt Ponton]

God. Awful.

He can't punish her for going into BKO, and that alone allows her to dodge all of his slow mids and highs. The only benefit is his weight for juggles but basically he's forced to play her guessing game and isn't afraid of being power gonged.

I think he has an easier time with Kasumi than he does with Christie.

In all three cases I would say his best options are his slow offensive holds.

 

[UncleKitchener]

With the force tech system in this game, characters like Helena end up having more frame advantage, my question is: what's the point of the pick-up now if force tech gives more frames? It doesn't have the same range as the pick-up, but it's still not as advantageous as the force tech.

edit: wouldn't 2K be a decent tool against someone mashing BKO 22 or is that too slow?

 

[Matt Ponton]

2K is 1 frame faster than 1P but 2 frames less advantage.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Are there any situations where you can do a low OH to break her flow?

 

[Matt Ponton]

I can only imagine off of her 6K knee that goes into bokuho, but being 7 frames i'd imagine his low hold being more useful as the low hold is 0 frames and does more damage with possible wall. Both are equally punishable to throws at equal speeds so :-/. I still don't know why OH have to be hi-counter throw punishable during their recovery...

 

[UncleKitchener]

Were they HC punishable in previous games?

In conclusion, I see these characters just being so tiring to fight against. Even if you win, you're going to be mentally dried up by the end, especially if you were constantly being attacked through the match. Abusing OHs, SSing, poking and some throw punishing would probably be the best you can do against these characters once you're at neutral.