Understanding the history of Dead or Alive

[Matt Ponton]

In the future this area will be updated with a history understanding on where the Dead or Alive series began, how its game system has evolved over time, how it related to the state of the market at the times of these changes, and how it has ended up in its current state today. Breaking down and understanding the history of why system changes occurred can help improve your game in ways you never thought possible. I have taken the time to play many of the games in the series' past, and I feel I can help bring to light some of the things I have learned through this. We will be going through each version of the game as history progressed.

Feel free to bring on any of your opinions or counter-arguments to the table as this (as always) is subjective. Any constructive criticism or discussion is tolerated and I look forward to seeing how this project will turn out in the future.

 

[Allan Paris]

Why didn't they keep the six way holding in the game? I feel that was a very good addition to the series, but they took it away. Was it becuase it went against the creator's motto or theme "keep it simple"?

 

[Matt Ponton]

Basically, as a game developer you're constantly fighting for a balance where the player can intuitively play the game while not having to sit down and study. How much study is required depends on the player. It's tough to choose between playing the game or playing the player for a developer, and how much to side on either. I believe this is similar to how Itagaki felt about the six-point hold system: (1) It was very complicated as implemented in the DOA++ engine - which I'll touch on later, and (2) it came down to how much you wanted to "know" the attack that was coming. So I would presume he fought with the idea of being specific in knowing a punch or kick was coming out, or simply knowing a high attack was coming to extend the stun. It's understandable the reason he kept the differentiation for mid punch and kick, as that was due to the launching attacks.

As an analogy, consider the world-renowned game of Go. Now, Go is an interesting game in that all you're doing is placing one of two color pieces on a grid. There's nothing really needed to know about the game itself besides you have to take a piece a plant it in a strategic point to win the game. It's the strategic point you must discover, and each player you meet has different strategies. Now, consider if the game were to require you to do some sort of hooplah before you were able to place a piece down. This is often a criticism I find with Virtua Fighter. It's a complex game in a simplistic engine. A game of three buttons with a lack of consistency (For example having a standard throw macro P+G but for a crouching throw you have some characters using a direction and P+K+G). Not even to mention the high intricacies of stepping and feinting.

 

[Allan Paris]

Ah ok, I dig that, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Something else I wanted to know is, why wasn't sidestepping put into DOA4? That's something that always gets me, when I see a move coming and I don't want to hold it, I just want to step it. I know that some moves that launches a character at you, you can step it but it has to be timed, it's not a free movemnt. I mean it is a 3D game and, previous DOA fighting games had it in it, so what gives with DOA4?

 

[Matt Ponton]

I too wish that sidestepping - true sidestepping - was implemented in Dead or Alive 4. It's a reason you see many people enjoy Dead or Alive 3.1 - not because it has a perfect sidestepping system, but many feel it's the closest that Dead or Alive has ever gotten to it.

I really have no idea as to why a true sidestepping system has been implemented. However, here are some facts to consider:

(1) If a true sidestepping system were implemented then the FreeStepDodge system would have to be fully revamped. The engine just doesn't have a "step" sway like that of Tekken or Virtua Fighter. The Z-axis of each hitboxes would have to be altered as another option to provide the huge hitbox avoidance of the character's body. In short, it basically needs to be revamped.

(2) This is one thing I've always disliked about 3D fighting games. They focus on the 3D aspect which typically revolves around avoiding "danger zones" (for a common term), but never really evolves much on the characters physically attacking each other. Typically it's an environmental game that causes it. This is contrasted in games like Street Fighter, where you control space not by "avoiding" the players attack, but by putting "obstacles" on the field of play. These obstacles I'm referring to are the special moves such as the "Hadouken" and "Sonic Boom". These are things in the gameplay that force the other player to react to it, and the player placing these obstacles on the field can win without ever physically touching their opponent. A 3D fighter typically doesn't revolve around this similar system. The sidestep always is meant as a tool to avoid the attack, but the players typically have to get back in to do damage. This is also typically the reason as to why 3D fighters are, generally speaking, slower in terms of move speed. Where most 2D fighters are 1-3 frames until hit frame, 3D fighters generally are of the 10+ frames until hit frame. The decreased speed provides easier methods to which avoid the attack and punish the attack itself. This is lends itself into DOA where players would attempt to "avoid" the most commonly spammable attacks, such as Ayane's p:9 to avoid wake-up, high crush attacks like Gen Fu's pk, or even invulnerability frames to provide an option select such as Hitomi's 6:k.

(3) Itagaki told me himself that he "took sidestepping too far in Dead or Alive 3.1" and that he "attempts to reach that level without going that far". This was at least shown in the jump from DOA4.0 to DOA4.1, where sidestepping was increased. Personally, the main reason he said that was because of the Hayate cartwheel abuse that became possible. With some refining or changing to the FSD engine they could potentially make it that way. As it is right now, I have no clue to what Hayasi's take on sidestepping in the Dead or Alive universe. Especially since he hasn't done anything but rehashes since he came into power at Team NINJA.

 

[JamoDOA]

The counter system from DOA2 up was significantly different from that of DOA1... In DOA1 they were more like actual parries while afterwards they're mostly just one hit wonders that do lots of damage and rarely allow follow up damage. Nothing against it, but wouldn't it be more interesting and deep to have the parry system again?

Why do you think they changed it anyway?

As a possible thought, what if they brought back the parries as the standard counter system and for more the more heavy counters you'd have to do more input? It'd be risky to use them but it's a good way to strike fear into your opponent if you "read them well enough to use one against them".