Community Why is DOA5 not getting awards?

[deathofaninja]

So last year I noticed pretty quickly that DOA5U wasn't nominated for anything, I was confused by it and just figured... maybe it was too late... maybe next year they will just add it the lists. Nothing. No recognition for DOA.

I guess it kind of bugs me. I know that our game is better than most, and I know it's not the most popular game, but why?

This community has always been pretty strong together though... maybe we should make our own awards show, maybe something a little better than what Julius Rage made a habit of doing and the fighter of the year could get a nice little plaque or something.

 

[Goarmagon]

I posted the steam link for LR in an IRC channel I chill in and I more or less got berated for trying to promote a shit game. I actually realize how dumb it is for us to make fun of each other even when some people say some really stupid things. Everyone else does it for you in the "FGC". People think they understand this game because of the triangle system and therefore feel as though they have the authority to make fun of it despite it actually adhering to the rules of fighting games more so than some other popular contemporaries. It would be hilarious and stupid if it wasn't a consensus thing among people who play fighting games. At the end of the day those people and their shallow close minded attitude have the ability to sway people who would have otherwise gave it a try.

As much as I hate conceding to some of the people here who whine about the fanservice people on the outside do cite that as a reason why this game is shit despite it following the rules of fighting games more closely than some other games and them having no other tangible ammunition against it.

 

[Argentus]

well lets be honest here....what awards could DOA win?

Maybe in previous entries it could win things like "best defense system", "best stages", or something like that, but DOA5 doesn't have much to offer, IMO.

 

[Kasumi]

Maybe Koei Tecmo can win the "game with most costumes at ridiculous prices" award.

Let's face it, outside the hardcore fans, DOA is invisible and nobody takes it serious.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

They do have The Raspberry for film & tv. Seriously, I don't know! Most Dramatic Game? XD

 

[Kohlrak]

I'm not a hardcore fan and i noticed DoA. DoA isn't catering to it's strengths, and, compared to other fighters, it's really not that accessible (as i've stated over and over again [you know there's something wrong when people are asking online forums for help in completing tutorial mode]). And it's online scene is atrocious. Something i learned with trying to propagate assembly programming, if people have a bad attitude about it, they're going to. You can try to prove them wrong with arguments all you want, but you aren't going to. As a community, we need to work on pushing DoA back to it's strengths (aside from some of the off the wall moves and off the wall characters like Zack, the styles are actually very fairly represented in this game compared to others, and the ideas behind it are just like real fighting, they put alot of effort into making the characters in DoA realistic [ever play the story line and actually kinda feel Mila?]), and also make it more accessible (The problem is, all the teachers and better players totally forget all they learned [the latest video on the main page seems to try to teach the game from the ground up, but starts talking about frame data as if everyone actually knows what it is {i played smash bros fairly competently without knowing the inner workings, but DoA doesn't have that luxury}], though it's not their fault [they learned years ago]) to get where they are now.

Honestly, though, DoA really needs a slow-mo training mode option (even for online dojo). It's a really stupidly simple feature to implement and it's a no-brainer that it would help us record and talk about the finer points of the game. I really have no idea why it isn't there.

 

[XV MR ARMANI]

And it's online scene is atrocious.

please repeat this a million times more.
I seriously think DOA has a harsh online scene. Top players act like nobody new can fight them, and its hard to run into players that actually dont mind helping other players out. You cannot, I repeat CANNOT expect the scene to expand how you want it to if those involved appear as if newcomers are nonexistent. doesn't make any damn sense. doa would literally THRIVE if people just showed more love honestly. im sure the same could be said about other games as well, but for this game, the problem is entirely too obvious.

 

[Kohlrak]

please repeat this a million times more.
I seriously think DOA has a harsh online scene. Top players act like nobody new can fight them, and its hard to run into players that actually dont mind helping other players out. You cannot, I repeat CANNOT expect the scene to expand how you want it to if those involved appear as if newcomers are nonexistent. doesn't make any damn sense. doa would literally THRIVE if people just showed more love honestly. im sure the same could be said about other games as well, but for this game, the problem is entirely too obvious.

I used to think that, too, but it's not really true. The jerks you're meeting are not the top players. The problem is, the top players have been good for so long, they no longer have a clue how to teach someone from the ground up. It's like when someone asks me to teach them japanese, instead of using the blocky chinese letters, i use hiragana. It's been a part of me for so long i completely forget that there are people in this world who don't know it. Right now they're video crazy, trying to help people through videos. Perfect legend made an excellent primer, except he started talking about frame data. Most people watching that vid will have to either stop and try searching, or something like that. I still don't even know if DoA is 30FPS or 60FPS. There's a lot of information thrown at you all at once, and you don't know how to handle it all at once. You end up with information overload, then bam. Then you get this mentality that they don't care, when in reality they're completely oblivious.

 

[NightAntilli]

please repeat this a million times more.
I seriously think DOA has a harsh online scene. Top players act like nobody new can fight them, and its hard to run into players that actually dont mind helping other players out. You cannot, I repeat CANNOT expect the scene to expand how you want it to if those involved appear as if newcomers are nonexistent. doesn't make any damn sense. doa would literally THRIVE if people just showed more love honestly. im sure the same could be said about other games as well, but for this game, the problem is entirely too obvious.

Agreed. And sadly, the newcomers that eventually do reach the top seem to turn to that same behavior. I won't mention any names. But there are some people that I could easily play with in the past. They were online players, and they were friendly and wanted to improve, and when they did they helped others improve also. Once they went to offline tournaments more than a few times, they changed. They start complaining about lag a lot more, they become resentful against newer players or less skilled players online to the point of insulting them. So help from them can definitely not be expected. And it shouldn't be this way.

There's a huge difference between the VF community and the DOA community. I picked up VF5:FS a while (I stopped playing now though), and well, no matter how bad the lag was, no matter how random some stuff was, the players were a lot more friendly. Aside from (I think) one person that talked crap, everyone else was simply kind, no matter how good or bad they were. I was receiving messages saying to try certain things without me talking to them first, some of them asked how long I was playing and so on. No hatred, no contempt, just positivism. If that would be DOA, the message you would "you suck at this game", "go fuck yourself", "you only win because of lag" and so on. VF might not be a huge community either, but it's a much better one than the DOA community, and the game is already recognized as a great fighter. DOA does not have the luxury to have a long list of assholes around.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I used to think that, too, but it's not really true. The jerks you're meeting are not the top players. The problem is, the top players have been good for so long, they no longer have a clue how to teach someone from the ground up. It's like when someone asks me to teach them japanese, instead of using the blocky chinese letters, i use hiragana. It's been a part of me for so long i completely forget that there are people in this world who don't know it. Right now they're video crazy, trying to help people through videos. Perfect legend made an excellent primer, except he started talking about frame data. Most people watching that vid will have to either stop and try searching, or something like that. I still don't even know if DoA is 30FPS or 60FPS. There's a lot of information thrown at you all at once, and you don't know how to handle it all at once. You end up with information overload, then bam. Then you get this mentality that they don't care, when in reality they're completely oblivious.

Its 60 fps

 

[Kohlrak]

Its 60 fps

Thank you.

Agreed. And sadly, the newcomers that eventually do reach the top seem to turn to that same behavior. I won't mention any names. But there are some people that I could easily play with in the past. They were online players, and they were friendly and wanted to improve, and when they did they helped others improve also. Once they went to offline tournaments more than a few times, they changed. They start complaining about lag a lot more, they become resentful against newer players or less skilled players online to the point of insulting them. So help from them can definitely not be expected. And it shouldn't be this way.

There's a huge difference between the VF community and the DOA community. I picked up VF5:FS a while (I stopped playing now though), and well, no matter how bad the lag was, no matter how random some stuff was, the players were a lot more friendly. Aside from (I think) one person that talked crap, everyone else was simply kind, no matter how good or bad they were. I was receiving messages saying to try certain things without me talking to them first, some of them asked how long I was playing and so on. No hatred, no contempt, just positivism. If that would be DOA, the message you would "you suck at this game", "go fuck yourself", "you only win because of lag" and so on. VF might not be a huge community either, but it's a much better one than the DOA community, and the game is already recognized as a great fighter. DOA does not have the luxury to have a long list of assholes around.

I can only play online, and when i had some discussions with one of the more vocal offline advocates we came to an understanding. I don't know about the rudeness, but they really did do the netcode really wrong with DoA5U. To make the lag less noticeable, they didn't freeze frame. The host of the match has an unfair advantage equal to the ping of the connection.

 

[NightAntilli]

Its 60 fps

Yeah, but all DOA5 iterations have an input lag of a 30 fps game. Let's hope this changes with Last Round on the new consoles.

 

[Kohlrak]

I doubt it. they should've fixed it with a free update

 

[d3v]

And it's online scene is atrocious.

Online has little to do with it.

Games like KoFXIII or MvC3 which have atrocious online have gotten more attention than DOA5. Getting attention has to do more with PR and community than online.

 

[Kohlrak]

Online has little to do with it.

Games like KoFXIII or MvC3 which have atrocious online have gotten more attention than DOA5. Getting attention has to do more with PR and community than online.

Frame data is alot more important in DoA. The online issues are noticeable, because host gets unfair frame advantage. As a result, community has no interest on the online. What's a fighting game if no one can play it with anyone? I noticed that most of the people who post here either defend online to the death, or they live near other players.

 

[CyberEvil]

Frame data is alot more important in DoA. The online issues are noticeable, because host gets unfair frame advantage. As a result, community has no interest on the online. What's a fighting game if no one can play it with anyone? I noticed that most of the people who post here either defend online to the death, or they live near other players.

The fighting is peer to peer. There is no host advantage. Say what you will about the quality of the netcode itself, but you're absolutely mistaken on that front.

 

[Kohlrak]

The fighting is peer to peer. There is no host advantage. Say what you will about the quality of the netcode itself, but you're absolutely mistaken on that front.

Peer to peer means that there is a player host, as opposed to central server. You're really just stating my point as a counter argument, then telling me i'm wrong. The problem with the netcode is that it allows frames to continue without waiting on signals of button press or no button press (probably because handling it properly will inevitably in even fast connections noticing the lag). Every game inevitably faces lag, but it matters how you deal with it.

 

[d3v]

Peer to peer means that there is a player host, as opposed to central server. You're really just stating my point as a counter argument, then telling me i'm wrong. The problem with the netcode is that it allows frames to continue without waiting on signals of button press or no button press (probably because handling it properly will inevitably in even fast connections noticing the lag). Every game inevitably faces lag, but it matters how you deal with it.

No, in true peer-to-peer fighting game networking, both consoles act like hosts and run their own games. Input delay comes from having to make sure that both games are in sync. This is done either by slowing the game and increasing input delay, or in newer games that implement GGPO-style rollback netcode, simply letting both games continue desynced, maintaining a fixed amount of input delay, then rolling back to the last fair/synced state.

 

[Kohlrak]

No, in true peer-to-peer fighting game networking, both consoles act like hosts and run their own games. Input delay comes from having to make sure that both games are in sync. This is done either by slowing the game and increasing input delay, or in newer games that implement GGPO-style rollback netcode, simply letting both games continue desynced, maintaining a fixed amount of input delay, then rolling back to the last fair/synced state.

If that were the case, only visible lag would be during the match, then the replays wouldn't show the complete lack of reaction, no? Moreover, if you used either method, the input lag wouldn't be noticeable, only the frame issues would be. That would allow people to hold as normal (actually more easily because the game would inevitably pause when "fair state" rollback is waiting to occur), yet the inability to do things like that is the greatest criticism of DoA's online. Juggles that do not rely on delay also should never drop.

 

[CyberEvil]

I am blown away that you are still trying to argue your point. You very clearly have little to no education in networking. Stop talking about online play now beyond saying you don't like it.

EDIT: Just now saw the post about DoA5 having input lag of a 30fps game. Someone, please respond to this thread and say something stupid again. Please. After saying something that will probably hurt your feelings, I will then lock the thread like "a complete asshole."