Yes or No to Patch?

[SilverKhaos]

I don't like the patch and will no longer be playing the game.

Not because my character was nerfed to low tier (I still have Rig), but because a lot of the buffs and nerfs seem illogical to me. Why nerf Mila and Alpha but buff the VF characters, leave Leifang and Jann Lee ridiculous and buff the ninjas?

It seems as though Team Ninja listened to a bunch of online scrubs who complained about everything they were too lazy to find a way around. Helena was never broken, but because of this patch, she's now unplayable. Mila wasn't even considered top tier by most people, yet now she's one of the worst characters in the game. Alpha wasn't all that great, had a huge weakness and was only dominant online. Now she's even weaker than she already was.

Not a single character should've been nerfed and I've been telling Team Ninja this since E3. I'll still support the scene, but I'm done playing this game competitively.

Not to argue, but to ask, how was Mila nerfed? her patch notes don't show too much in the way of "nerfing". Of course, that's just on paper, in practice may be something different. Most of it just looked it went under that "5 minutes of adjusting after the patch hits", not so much a nerf.

Alpha and Helena are 50/50. Helena, even without force tech, would still be queen of mixup and erratic movements (with her king, Brad). So I'm not really seeing how she'd be unplayable. Elaborate?

Alpha, on the other hand, is still a playable boss character. So there's always going to be certain unfair advantages, just by virtua of who she is, no matter how much nerfing of her damage, etc. unless they just throw out her whole moveset and give her a new one. Otherwise, she still has those insane throws, she can still fly around the arena, and I think she still has that Kasumi auto counter teleport. I still really think she should just be a costume for Kasumi, rather than a full on playable boss.

again, I don't have the patch, so not speaking from experience, just observation of the patch notes, and I'm asking you to elaborate.

Having played with you online a few times, it always felt like you use virtually the same style of Mila (though much better at it) as I do, so I'd really like to hear your comments on her with the patch notes.

 

[DR2K]

Mila is the best low tier any any fighter ever then.

 

[MasterHavik]

I don't like the patch and will no longer be playing the game.

Not because my character was nerfed to low tier (I still have Rig), but because a lot of the buffs and nerfs seem illogical to me. Why nerf Mila and Alpha but buff the VF characters, leave Leifang and Jann Lee ridiculous and buff the ninjas?

It seems as though Team Ninja listened to a bunch of online scrubs who complained about everything they were too lazy to find a way around. Helena was never broken, but because of this patch, she's now unplayable. Mila wasn't even considered top tier by most people, yet now she's one of the worst characters in the game. Alpha wasn't all that great, had a huge weakness and was only dominant online. Now she's even weaker than she already was.

Not a single character should've been nerfed and I've been telling Team Ninja this since E3. I'll still support the scene, but I'm done playing this game competitively.

I like your last line a lot. i'm still wondering why they buff the ninjas to the moon? I mean yeah Hayate bland boring ass needed some work...but the other three were fine. It seems we can't have a DOA game withotu the ninja be close to top which is fucking sad that people like Helena and Zack take a backseat to the op mary sue Kasumi(Not saying she is op) and her bitchy mary sue sister ayane.

 

[DriftSlave]

It seems that people forget that Patches cost the developers/publishers money....and we are not talking just a few hundred dollars here but can go upwards to $40,000 depending on that patch and the size of it. This is why developers try to sneak as much content in every update as possible to save money.

Just throwing that out there.

source: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...ssue-patch-makes-games-better-microsoft.shtml

 

[DrDogg]

Not to argue, but to ask, how was Mila nerfed? her patch notes don't show too much in the way of "nerfing". Of course, that's just on paper, in practice may be something different. Most of it just looked it went under that "5 minutes of adjusting after the patch hits", not so much a nerf.

CH 7P P+K is no longer a sit-down stun. This kills her CH 7P loop.

SS tackle is SIGNIFICANTLY slower. You MIGHT be able to use it with really, really good timing, but any loops are out of the question.

SS Punch is unsafe. Couple this with the SS Tackle nerf and her SS game is now one of the weakest of the entire cast.

Basically, if you remember how I play Mila... EVERYTHING I used with her is now useless except 3H+K. EVERYTHING.

Alpha and Helena are 50/50. Helena, even without force tech, would still be queen of mixup and erratic movements (with her king, Brad). So I'm not really seeing how she'd be unplayable. Elaborate?

Helena is only good once you're stunned, and the only way for her to open you up is with one of her lows that stun on normal hit. Against someone with decent defense, those aren't going to hit much. Just ask Mamba when he played against me at SCR. He didn't win because he used Helena or attempted the PFT. He won because he was a good player. Any other Helena player would've been rocked. She has nothing now...

Alpha, on the other hand, is still a playable boss character. So there's always going to be certain unfair advantages, just by virtua of who she is, no matter how much nerfing of her damage, etc. unless they just throw out her whole moveset and give her a new one. Otherwise, she still has those insane throws, she can still fly around the arena, and I think she still has that Kasumi auto counter teleport. I still really think she should just be a costume for Kasumi, rather than a full on playable boss.

I can beat Alpha online with relative ease. Offline it's not even a challenge. Sure there might be one or two really good Alpha players, but she wasn't better than Jann Lee, Leifang or any of the actual good characters. Now she's far weaker.

Mila is the best low tier any any fighter ever then.

Tell me then, what does Mila have now that makes her at least a solid mid tier?

I like your last line a lot. i'm still wondering why they buff the ninjas to the moon? I mean yeah Hayate bland boring ass needed some work...but the other three were fine. It seems we can't have a DOA game withotu the ninja be close to top which is fucking sad that people like Helena and Zack take a backseat to the op mary sue Kasumi(Not saying she is op) and her bitchy mary sue sister ayane.

I don't care about the buffs. I didn't think they were necessary, but good for those characters. Buffs for everyone! It's the nerfs that make no sense!

 

[Batcommander]

It does. Hitomi's 3f+k on knockdown guarantees a 2f+k that leaves her at +12

ah, alright then, thanks for clarifying

 

[DR2K]

Tell me then, what does Mila have now that makes her at least a solid mid tier?

+Higher damage output overall.(lower health bar + damage boosts)

+She still retain frame advantage off of throw break.

+Better sidestep(universal buff) but worse OH from it. Now Mila users can mix up with SS P and K which got buffed.

+Still has her force tech game from 3F+K

+Solid sitdown stuns, and pressure game with fast jabs.

+Great range game with tools like 6F+K

Not sure what she's missing, you're going to have to change things up with her. Same with Helena, her force tech game got nerfed, but she got a ton of other buffs to componsate. Now she can be played with a little more depth.

 

[DrDogg]

+Higher damage output overall.(lower health bar + damage boosts)

The damage boost is only on the last hit of the tackle punches. You won't be hitting that much offline. The health nerf/buff is universal and doesn't apply to this conversation.

+She still retain frame advantage off of throw break.

With nerfed follow-ups.

+Better sidestep(universal buff) but worse OH from it. Now Mila users can mix up with SS P and K which got buffed.

SS P was nerfed and SS K is high = much less useful than the pre-patch SS P.

+Still has her force tech game from 3F+K

And with a slower tackle her options are limited after the FT. Not to mention the damage is decreased a bit, but we'll call that even with the health nerf/buff.

+Solid sitdown stuns, and pressure game with fast jabs.

Her main sit-down stun setups are gone now.

+Great range game with tools like 6F+K

This doesn't make her a solid mid-tier.

Not sure what she's missing, you're going to have to change things up with her. Same with Helena, her force tech game got nerfed, but she got a ton of other buffs to componsate. Now she can be played with a little more depth.

Let me list off what she had that's now gone:

- Safe SS mid
- Good SS Tackle that can easily be mixed up with the safe SS mid
- Sit-down stun loop
- Normal throw loop
- Tackle loop
- Mix-up after blocked 4K

What she has now is a bunch of stuff that will work okay online and get torn up against anyone who knows the match-up offline. She's all shenanigans and nothing solid outside of 3H+K.

 

[DR2K]

Oh cool, she lost her brain dead loops. Which is great. She does more damage, has a great pressure game, solid tools at range, good force techs to work with, etc. . .

 

[DrDogg]

Oh cool, she lost her brain dead loops. Which is great. She does more damage, has a great pressure game, solid tools at range, good force techs to work with, etc. . .

What exactly gives her a great pressure game and solid tools at range?

A 10-frame jab and 12-frame mid don't equate to a great pressure game, and 4H+K is decent, but not the best poke in the game. 3H+K has zero priority at range and 2H+K is slow as dirt.

And since you're so versed on her "brain dead" loops, could you give me a quick rundown of all three please? One is easy, one you have a think a little, I don't think you know the third. Just sayin...

 

[ShinQuan]

I love the patch!! Mostly people are obsessed with picking only Zack Island now of course. Im annoyed Brads 44/66 implementation seemingly didnt get in, but hope the Feb. update changes that.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

you know they ain't making them free. TN wants that paper dude.

I know they won't, but I think it'd be pretty cool of them to at least discount them for a week or something. Not really a big deal though, I guess.

Alpha, on the other hand, is still a playable boss character. So there's always going to be certain unfair advantages, just by virtua of who she is, no matter how much nerfing of her damage, etc. unless they just throw out her whole moveset and give her a new one.

Tell that to DOA4's and DOAD's Tengu.

I love the patch!! Mostly people are obsessed with picking only Zack Island now of course.

Somehow, I hadn't thought of that. Zack Island might become boring pretty quickly.

I won't be specifically picking Zack Island when Xbox gets it, as I never pick a stage. I'll still continue to select random, but I'll have Zack Island enabled in the random filter.

 

[Amerazzz]

Mila is shit-tier now. TN, whhhyyyy??!!

 

[DrDogg]

Mila is shit-tier now. TN, whhhyyyy??!!

If you're playing online or against people who aren't really good she's fine. You just have to play her like a DOA4 character. Stun to launch! Yay...

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

If you're playing online or against people who aren't really good she's fine. You just have to play her like a DOA4 character. Stun to launch! Yay...

I honestly think TN will make a few changes before re releasing the patch, I doubt major changes will happen but maybe some small ones, like Helena's BKO jab buff.

 

[Rikuto]

Yar blar.

Mila could use a bit of work, that said I'm not a fan of her loop into loop into loop style. Actually I'm not a fan of anyone who does this in open space... simply due to system mechanics not giving any way to defend against it logically.

In other games you have throw breaks and other assorted ways to run damage control instead of getting looped. In DOA its just... nope, you pick this, you get fucked. You pick that, you get fucked. No real reason to pick one over the other. Don't like. Since the game doesn't have throw breaks like that, the only way for TN to shut it down was to slow it down to the point its reactable... which also kills the threat behind it completely. So this solution was also a false one.

At least in 3.1 you had to really, really, REALLY mess up for Bass to start looping you. I'm totally fine with environment based loops as well since that also requires a good bit of foresight to start up and a logical way to get out of it. If only we had throw breaks Mila would have been fine... as is, I think she (and jann lee as well tbh) need to be retooled somewhat.

Not nerfed, not buffed, re-tooled.

... or just add throw breaks.


Hey, did I mention throw breaks would solve basically everything?

 

[DR2K]

What exactly gives her a great pressure game and solid tools at range?

A 10-frame jab and 12-frame mid don't equate to a great pressure game, and 4H+K is decent, but not the best poke in the game. 3H+K has zero priority at range and 2H+K is slow as dirt.

And since you're so versed on her "brain dead" loops, could you give me a quick rundown of all three please? One is easy, one you have a think a little, I don't think you know the third. Just sayin...

A 10 frame jab, fast strings, fast low sweeps, etc. . . she's definitely more than a low tier character.

Most of her loops involved her tackle, which was hard to punish and react to. That has been fixed and she can't use it with impunity anymore.It can still be used though, and she still retain frame advantage off of breaks.

 

[DrDogg]

A 10 frame jab, fast strings, fast low sweeps, etc. . . she's definitely more than a low tier character.

She doesn't have fast low sweeps or strings that are any faster than most of the cast. In fact, if the speed of your strings made you a solid character then Zack would be top tier and Kasumi wouldn't have gotten buffed this patch (why did she get buffed?).

Most of her loops involved her tackle, which was hard to punish and react to. That has been fixed and she can't use it with impunity anymore.It can still be used though, and she still retain frame advantage off of breaks.

No. One loop involved the tackle. This is exactly the problem. Too many people don't know enough about the game and those are the people Team Ninja listened to. Please, please, please learn (or at least understand) the character at a high level before you start dictating what she does and doesn't have.

If it was only the tackle nerf I'd be displeased, but accepting. Team Ninja killed everything she used at high levels except 3H+K. And for what? I didn't hear anyone complaining. I heard a lot of complaints about Leifang, yet hardly anything was changed about her. Lots of people complained about Dragon Gunner. No changes there. Did Bayman lose his ridiculous wall 50/50 with built-in reset? Nope! At least the Alpha nerf we could see coming because online scrubs complained enough to get a spotlight on it. Mila's nerfs make no sense.

I'm not saying all these nerfs should've happened.... I don't think ANY nerfs should've taken place. But why was Mila hit so hard while Kasumi and Ayane get buffs? While the VF characters get buffs (Sarah won the Japanese tournament and she STILL got buffed)? While Leifang remains close to if not #1 in the game? I don't know of many people saying Mila was #1 pre-patch, yet she got nerfed harder than pretty much anyone else (maybe excluding Alpha).

 

[DR2K]

The only nerf I think she should have gotten was the OH tackle.The new SS properties would have made that move more ridiculous.

It seems TN just didn't take a liking to loops in general. Mila, Helena, and the general ground game has changed to not really allow it, not the same way.

Team Ninja has a hard on for Ninja's, nothing new. Mila has things going for her though. Far from low tier.

 

[DrDogg]

Mila could use a bit of work, that said I'm not a fan of her loop into loop into loop style. Actually I'm not a fan of anyone who does this in open space... simply due to system mechanics not giving any way to defend against it logically.

You mean those same system mechanics that let you take 40% of my health if you guess right at almost any point during those loops? Those same system mechanics that give me a small stage and make it easy for you to put me in a 50/50 wall reset? Those same system mechanics that don't give me any kind of real movement to space out or really even avoid getting pinned down with my back to a wall against Bayman? Sure, let's talk about those system mechanics...

>_>

The only nerf I think she should have gotten was the OH tackle.The new SS properties would have made that move more ridiculous.

It seems TN just didn't take a liking to loops in general. Mila, Helena, and the general ground game has changed to not really allow it, not the same way.

Team Ninja has a hard on for Ninja's, nothing new. Mila has things going for her though. Far from low tier.

You know, I'd take the old SS and no tackle nerf over this handicapped Mila. The old SS wasn't great, but I could use it effectively.

Also, Mila's loops didn't have much to do with the ground game. In fact, her FT is still there, just slightly modified. I still think she's low tier, but even if she was top tier, you have to play her like every other DOA character. She lost her individuality. Now you just Stun > Extend Stun > CB or Launch... rinse and repeat. No thanks.

Out of curiosity, who do you think Mila is better than at the moment?