THE STRONGEST THREAD IN THE WORLD (The LEON Thread)

[XZero264]

A couple weeks ago I noticed Leon's 66PP is a launcher of sorts at Threshold 3 when following 66P. I've been trying to find a really good use for it and last week I found one by accident in a Ranked Match (took me until two days ago to replicate it right).
You know how Leon's strings carry him a pretty ridiculous distance while plowing away? Sometimes you end up near a wall and can't really launch because all you will do is knock them into said wall (often you may not get that wall bounce followup because his launchers all have a knockback).
At any stun (including Critical Burst) or Counter while the opponent is between a wall and Leon use 66PP. 66P has a 1m knockback on Counter/Stun and will knock the opponent into the wall. With the lift/launch from 66PP you will knock people into the air. Guess how high it launches them?
That's right, high enough for an air grab.

And this works on all weight classes. Sadly you can't do a followup to the 66PP.

In summary, in Stun or Counter with Foe between Leon and wall:
66PP>T

Sadly you can't do a followup to the 66PP and still get the air grab.

 

[KidArk]

@XZero264 that was in a Leon combo video by 866ain a under wall splats D:

 

[XZero264]

I don't typically watch combo videos so I didn't know. Not in my nature to follow how other people play specific characters as I prefer to play by my own rules.

 

[KidArk]

I don't typically watch combo videos so I didn't know. Not in my nature to follow how other people play specific characters as I prefer to play by my own rules.

All, that withstanding, I only said that so someone more rude than I did't say that in an arrogant way. Watching combo videos is helpfull , not combo videos... that's like me playing zero in umvc3 without my lightning loops, its good to watch the videos then making your own style from everything.

 

[Argentus]

I don't typically watch combo videos so I didn't know. Not in my nature to follow how other people play specific characters as I prefer to play by my own rules.

Same.

Something ive learned to love about Leon, I dont even get mad at my opponents long combos anymore. I can go "skay. I'll only need to hit them twice, maybe three times, to make up the damage, and then some".

It still amazes me how quickly he can annihilate the enemy. It actually felt cheap to use him if things go too well.

 

[PJudge]

Same.

Something ive learned to love about Leon, I dont even get mad at my opponents long combos anymore. I can go "skay. I'll only need to hit them twice, maybe three times, to make up the damage, and then some".

It still amazes me how quickly he can annihilate the enemy. It actually felt cheap to use him if things go too well.

I know, right? With Leon, you don't have to do very much work at all to get some freakishly high damage. It makes me a bit giddy sometimes.

 

[Argentus]

I know, right? With Leon, you don't have to do very much work at all to get some freakishly high damage. It makes me a bit giddy sometimes.

I love it. Even when I'm up against bass or Bayman, they still cant keep up with Leons damage output. It's to the point where so long as I have any health left so I can still attack, I'm not worried. Making a "one more jab and I'm dead but they still have full health" comeback is just a regular thing for him.

 

[alexbib]

Remember you have Leon's wakeup tackle when somebody tries to keep pressure on you and doesn't like to crouch often. Leon is crouching most of the throw (from frames 2-14 of the throw) so you can be low thrown out of it.

Wait, what's that wakeup tackle? I don't see it in the movelist, what's the command for it?

 

[Brute]

Wait, what's that wakeup tackle? I don't see it in the movelist, what's the command for it?

Head-down facing opponent-T.

 

[Argentus]

Okay, frustration. Does Leon have any attacks that arent beat out by speedy characters? Seems like all I can do is counter or trap them so they can't fight back at all. And I don't like being cheap, which leaves me with countering, but id love to be able to actually fight Ninjas and the like without having to be cheap about it.

Anything I can do when they rush right into my face, besides counter?

 

[Argentus]

Okay, frustration. Does Leon have any attacks that arent beat out by speedy characters? Seems like all I can do is counter or trap them so they can't fight back at all. And I don't like being cheap, which leaves me with countering, but id love to be able to actually fight Ninjas and the like without having to be cheap about it.

Anything I can do when they rush right into my face, besides counter?

 

[Sly Bass]

Okay, frustration. Does Leon have any attacks that arent beat out by speedy characters? Seems like all I can do is counter or trap them so they can't fight back at all. And I don't like being cheap, which leaves me with countering, but id love to be able to actually fight Ninjas and the like without having to be cheap about it.

Anything I can do when they rush right into my face, besides counter?

Tis the life of a grapler. Focus on throw and whiff punishing to get your opening. Leon has a great high crush with 33P and it puts them into sitdown. If you try to play him as a striker/rushdown, then you're going to lose more than you'll win.

 

[Drake Aldan]

Argh, where's the post that says this?
I can't find it...

Anyway, 8PPP is ridiculous post-CB. Works from Gen Fu down (Really?!)
Honestly, an easier input than While Rising K (less dropped combos!)
Granted, it only does like 4 more damage, but there's wall carry to take into account too, right?
(Though, you really can't choose the throw direction like with While Rising K...)

The best way to make it consistent is 8PPP, then do a short dash before throwing (66~T).

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I know people are gonna say .. ITS UNSAFE ..BLEEEEEEH ..
but,
3K is your friend at range ... it out pokes so many things
much safer than 33P .. Which I honestly still believe is a death wish since it brings him in closer AND at disadvantage.

 

[KidArk]

Personally 8k s my move, I out space then poke trip cb, or just poke dervish throw , the stun is soo good, 33p and 1p are high crushes so interrupt with them when possible, also apply your OH properly standing and crouching variants.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Personally 8k s my move, I out space then poke trip cb, or just poke dervish throw , the stun is soo good, 33p and 1p are high crushes so interrupt with them when possible, also apply your OH properly standing and crouching variants.

The problem with 8K is that it would get stuffed with high crushes ..
plus 3k has better range

 

[Brute]

Tis the life of a grapler. Focus on throw and whiff punishing to get your opening. Leon has a great high crush with 33P and it puts them into sitdown. If you try to play him as a striker/rushdown, then you're going to lose more than you'll win.

Leon's meant for rushdown, though. Never let your opponent breathe.

 

[Argentus]

Leon's meant for rushdown, though. Never let your opponent breathe.

Debatable. He's a power character, first and foremost, amd stuns aside, everyone else has advantage in rushdown due to being waaaay faster than Leon. I know you mean hes a pure offense character, but I dont think "rushdown" is the right way to describe him, when his real advantage is really slow unblockable moves.

I mean I ninja is gonna beat him out in pure rushdown almost every time, so instead he uses mindgames, guard breaks and unblockables.

Unless you are.just talking about the usual single strike stun abuse offense, in whoch case thats not talking about Leon, since its just a universal tactic.

 

[Brute]

Leon has one moment to play defense, and that's match start. Once your opponent is caught doing something unsafe, Leon moves in and does not stop. His attacks hurl people across two full screens. Does he wait and try to out-space them? No, that's stupid, since his sluggish speed will be beat out once the situation returns to neutral. You run after their dumb ass and apply floor pressure unless they tech. And if they tech, guess what? That takes frames, and Leon is powering in with tons of anti-guard tools WHILE THEY'RE AT DISADVANTAGE from the tech. The minute Leon begins an offense, he does not stop. He rushes in. Rushdown.

You mentioned the ninjas "beating [Leon] on rushdown every time." Ryu, for example, has garbage options against blocks. Thus, he highly relies on spacing and CHs to begin his offense. Additionally, he must constantly switch to defensive strategies such as knowing when to continue from ongyoin, when to parry from it, when to go for expert holds, etc. Thus, he's not purely rushing someone down unless they're letting him. He can't. Not like Leon can. Once Leon beings, he doesn't have to stop. He shouldn't stop. Leon's goal is to prevent the situation from ever returning to neutral. Hayabusa cannot sustain that strategy like Leon can. This puts Leon's rushdown on a level far above Ryu's.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

exactly, there seems to be a misconception that only fast characters can utilize rushdown strategy. Leon won't win poking wars against the likes of kasumi,pai, christie ect but he can overwhelm them with his crushes, offensive holds, mixups, charge moves, ground throws, and guard breaks all while putting the fear of getting either launched into air throw or hi-counter thrown with desert falcon/dervish throw in the back of their minds on top of worrying about wall/dangerzone damage making them second guess themselves.