THE STRONGEST THREAD IN THE WORLD (The LEON Thread)

[DontForkWitMe]

I see why ppl gravitate to Rachel already. Do Leon's charge moves make a big difference? It seems like his (kick) charges can be seen easily. I'm gonna guess also that Leon has a big focus on environment, from his air throws. I kinda wish he had more to offer, like Bayman, but do ppl pick him for his "rawness"?

If you're trying to play him like Bayman then im afraid you're playing him wrong. Leon is an offensive oriented grappler and needs to play rushdown style. even against faster characters you want him in their face at all times utilizing his high/low mixups, charge attacks as both built in string delays and guard breaks that give him huge frame advantage, his non chargeable GBs that give him frame advantage, and even his disadvantage GBs that still make his moves safe on block. No other character can take advantage of the environment like he can and god have mercy on the poor souls who have to fight him in Home. it literally tilts matchups in his favor 10-fold no matter who the opponent is with what he can do in that stage.

Of course he still has his weaknesses and being a grappler his speed is still not up to par with rushdown strike based characters and when you add in the games shitty netcode and 80% of the players online having garbage connections, Leon gets put in a more severe disadvantage against them.

overall i can confidently say he is the best grappler in the game even when you compare him to rachel. she pretty much is all vortex shennannigans where in comparison Leon has much higher damage output, better SDS setups with guaranteed launchers, 2in1s, ground throws with guaranteed setups, more and better guard breaks, a true unblockable that tracks steppers, better environment manipulation, higher damaging throws, and an equal mixup game. so as brute pointed out the main reason Rachel is preferred is she has tits and her vortex oriented style is completely brain-dead in comparison to Leon who has to work harder for his wins

 

[Brute]

No other character can take advantage of the environment like he can and god have mercy on the poor souls who have to fight him in Home. it literally tilts matchups in his favor 10-fold no matter who the opponent is with what he can do in that stage.

You underestimate Hayabusa.

 

[Codemaster92163]

Yeah, Ryu has great environment potential xD not sure, but I think Leon's only ceiling strike is his PL, so that puts Ryu higher IMO, though Leon gets absurd damage for free if he hits you in the right place.

 

[Brute]

One of Hayabusa's strengths in something like the Home is that he can utilize those ceiling shenanigans from anywhere in the stage, including a standing throw, crouching throw, a rather fast throw against BT opponents, and from any punch hold. He also gets great furniture tech options if you line those up, but he doesn't need to be aligned anywhere to get good damage off of that stage. Leon gets great damage from furniture as well, but he must be positioned correctly to do so.

 

[PJudge]

But when he is positioned right, the payoff is such a rewarding feeling as you hurl them around the room. That said, I remember a game not long ago against Hayabusa on Home and I was getting dizzy by the end of it. Just bouncing off of every wall. That guy was all over me.

I feel that I should just clarify that I didn't mean that Leon is bottom tier in 5U, but that even if he was I'd still play him.

 

[Brute]

To this day nothing feels more rewarding in DOA than an Izuna. Dervish throws and desert falcons come right after, though, along with the Deja Vu.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Good Leon wake up punish , 2 Back dashes away P+K T , works against all wake ups even special ones, just... well you won't throw them if they fall, ie Kasumi, Mariposa, Alpha , Hayate , those weird special wake up kicks. Solid cannon 236 P works too... but P+K T looks soo good x_x

OMG thats insane !
Takes notes ...
I'm stealing this for the Leon video (write up finished by the way ... dunno how soon I'll release it though, been so busy)

 

[KidArk]

WHERE IS LEON's SHIRTLESS OUTFIT! It'd be the only outfit he could match Bayman with in tag , all he has is a black wife beater... which sounds really racist.

 

[Viper Excess]

Fork, I didn't mean to say that he plays like Bayman. Bayman just seems to have more options than Leon, considering their speeds. Leon's style is basically "strikes and desert falcon". Maybe I just have a few issues with him trying to be in-your-face offense. He's slow for a strike character (Hitomi has a 10 frame jab and she has a 14 frame low jab for +1), he has only 3 GBs on + w/o need for charging, and his charges have to be fully charged for frame advantage on block with all of them being nearly 40 frames to execute fully (Christie's GBs take nearly 30 frames and can be cancelled to sidestep).

His momentum also seems to halt whenever he throws out his safe knee, with no extra defensive options to keep him moving (parry, sidestep, etc.). Woulda been nice if he was a true grappler as well to punish more and get more damage from that angle (when the fuck did Hayabusa become a true grappler in terms of punishing?)

What I like about him is that his GBs cannot be SE'd, his slap is great as a move, and that he is very safe. His sidestep options are also nice. I'm just having trouble with the in-your-face pressure piece. Rig has the stance, Christie has the speed, and Kokoro has the mixups, all of them with frame advantage mixed in. So where does he wind up? It would be nice if he had like Mila's 6T w/ guaranteed follow up or Jann Lee's Dragon Gunner, where either forces you to choose an option or get hurt even on block. I like his safety but I end up playing basic defense with him half the time instead of raw offense. I like the professional, and I want an offensive guy who has scary throws, but we ain't clickin so far.

To this day nothing feels more rewarding in DOA than an Izuna. Dervish throws and desert falcons come right after, though, along with the Deja Vu.

Gotta disagree there. There are too many ways to do Izuna, and you see them all the time in NG games. I love seeing tag Izunas, but really strong 12 frame throws (backbreaker, desert falcon, TFBB, JOC) come first.

I gotta admit tho, Izunas in DOA1 were very satisfying because they were hard to do. They felt fresh and amazing at the time. I would say Izuna is pretty cool, but tag Izunas like with Momiji and Tina are mad nice.

 

[Brute]

really strong 12 frame throws (backbreaker, desert falcon, TFBB, JOC) come first

The Izuna is a very strong 12 frame throw. It deals more damage than the desert falcon and is a combo throw.

If you think that the Senko Izuna on HiC is easy to do and see it often, then good for you, but it's easily the hardest hold in the game and does the most damage, so pulling that off is quite rewarding.

 

[KidArk]

Hardest move in the game is Gen Fu hat throwing taunt , duh.

 

[XZero264]

Neat tricks and info:

Leon's "back to wall" T works on the unexploded generators in Scramble for 75 damage and a free generator DZ followup.

Both forms of the Dervish Throw (46T and 2T on foe's legs) will throw your opponent at roughly a 45 degree angle to Leon's left (tried in both open and closed stance and alternate half circles before hitting T).

Remember you have Leon's wakeup tackle when somebody tries to keep pressure on you and doesn't like to crouch often. Leon is crouching most of the throw (from frames 2-14 of the throw) so you can be low thrown out of it.

Leon's rising K launcher can be buffered out of low strikes, low throws, low holds, a forced crouch (Leon's PP6P on NH for example), and sit down stuns. It is his fastest kick and second fastest strike outside of strings at 12 frames. It is his most damaging single hit launcher at 30 points.

After a Fall Back Stun from 66K the most damaging option is 66PPP (works on all weight classes). You have to hold the second 6 until you take a step forward before hitting PPP otherwise you will end up whiffing completely (subject to change with stage ground height differences).

A biggie, watch for tech rolls off of knockbacks or throwaways (Desert Eagle, Air Catapults, Dervish Throws, etc.). Run after them and watch for tech rolls. If they do not tech you get a free ground throw, if they do tech roll you can hit them with a running T (also an OH). If they catch on to the T and start crouching or throwing to avoid it you should mix it up and go for a running P (remember that running P and 46P can Close Hit).

After a Critical Burst 8PPP 66T on all weight classes minus super heavies and Alpha is the most optimal launch-to-air throw combination. It is more difficult to perform than just Rising K 3P T but nets 5 more damage than said combo and grants a farther throw distance due to increased forward movement. All directional inputs before T will always lead to an air throw.
Against Alpha: CB>Rising K>6PPK>T
Against Super Heavies: CB> Rising K>T
Against anyone else: CB>8PPP>66T

Edit: Goes hand in hand with Tech Rolling. If you catch on to someone not teching you can launch, 6PPK, allow foe to hit ground, and 2T for a Dervish Throw. When they are teching it's better to go for the above combos.

Edit 2: Pretty sure Leon is getting his gladiator costume with the Halloween stuff TN is posting (really out of the loop with things lately).
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1378204_433744220063002_297412875_n.jpg

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Good info. Props.

Pretty sure Leon is getting his gladiator costume with the Halloween stuff TN is posting (really out of the loop with things lately).
https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1378204_433744220063002_297412875_n.jpg

Unfortunately, yes, he is. Called it. So many better choices than that.

 

[XZero264]

Eh, I'll use it anyway if it has had a big graphical update (need more variety for him until we get the trench coat anyway). Its concept is now more fitting than ever anyway, Leon has received one hell of an update in 5U. He is actually competent in the striking area now (I don't Desert Falcon enough).

 

[Brute]

Eh, I'll use it anyway if it has had a big graphical update (need more variety for him until we get the trench coat anyway). Its concept is now more fitting than ever anyway, Leon has received one hell of an update in 5U. He is actually competent in the striking area now (I don't Desert Falcon enough).

Until your opponent realizes he's 99% mid punches.

 

[PJudge]

That's when you start using 2KK>4T. It's not really guaranteed, but it catches people off guard a lot, and 90% of the time people throw out mid holds, so you get HiC on it too.

 

[AkaShocka]

I need a guy character..... since I main Lisa, I want Leon to be my guy main .(Not because he's a grappler.... ok maybe so) But I use pretty much all the females except for 3. I try to use Pai but my Pai is horrendous lol.
So my Leon buddies!!! What tips is there for me? I am also trying out Ein. I feel special because I made a legit combo with him. xD.

 

[PJudge]

Argh, I've had a terrible time over the last couple of days online, probably due to my lack of playing during the week last week. I've noticed I start my rounds by going for 8K, and then follow up with either 6PP>Desert Falcon, or P6PK>P+K. I was just wondering what you guys all do from the starting gun?

 

[Brute]

So my Leon buddies!!! What tips is there for me?

You are a grappler. Your biggest damage will come from HiC throws, offensive holds, etc. Your strikes are there to pressure the opponent into caving in and making split decisions incorrectly. Because Leon is so mid punch reliant, people will try to mid P hold out of his guard break pressure, and that's where you'll get your HiC throws (Desert Falcon is your go-to). Be cautious when choosing your offense initiators, as 99% of your best strikes are mid Ps. Delay your charge attacks for mix-up and get used to the P6P2K/6PP2K string(s).
Despite your speed, you are a pressure character. You're not going to want to back up much if at all. Charge your opponent and use your heavy knockbacks to drive them into environment factors that trap them. If they're not teching, always apply floor pressure. Because you can win an entire match in about 3 proper reads, know when to move in. Be patient, but after you begin your offense be relentless. Use things like WR K as a mix-up from your throw baits and punch strikes (goes into a launch->air-throw which will continue your knockback pressure).
You are intimidating. Play like it.

 

[Sly Bass]

Another cool thing I found out this weekend. On bouncy walls, "The Show" and "Fuel (Bottom)", you can hit them into it and then air grab them for another wall splat. This combo proves to be the most damaging.

Facing the bouncy wall:
:[[p+k]]:, , ,