[Aug 27, 2012] DOA5 @ FIGHTERS AT i46 - THE OLYMPIAN - 24th-27th... (The International Centre)

[MasterHavik]

Someone give me Cow's twitter.

 

[Steady G]

Team Ninja, who are you guys listening to with these "taking steps back" methods because it sure as heck isn't us. *Itagaki must be apart of this act.....

We were fine and excited for the longer hold periods that were introduced, shortening them will only revive our previous issues with DOA4's hold system.

We need some in-depth Akira play because out of all the characters, I'm worried about the guy because his properties continue to change "for the worst" with seldom lab test sessions it seems. And Sarah should "NOT" be nerfed in any shape of form, just buff up those who need it like Dr Dogg said.

There's still hope because small tweaks can be made here n there with little effort, we'll have to just wait and see if they'll be able to in this short period of time. But until I play it, I can't fully judge what's on paper.

I disagree with the bold section. I was playing Sarah at the San Mateo tournament & her reversal holds SUCKED! Even if I do a counter reversal hold, the same amount of damage was still be conflicted.. Im sorry but she needs to be more powerful.. It would be only fair because all the other characters' reversals takes twice as much as Sarah's... Im just saying...

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

I disagree with the bold section. I was playing Sarah at the San Mateo tournament & her reversal holds SUCKED! Even if I do a counter reversal hold, the same amount of damage was still be conflicted.. Im sorry but she needs to be more powerful.. It would be only fair because all the other characters' reversals takes twice as much as Sarah's... Im just saying...

The only people I've seen with damaging counters are those who rely on counters for part of the gameplay IE. Bayman, Leifang, and Hayabusa. Everyone else's counters are pretty toned down. I don't think Sarah(or any VF character) really needs a buff, compared to some of the DOA characters :/

 

[Steady G]

The only people I've seen with damaging counters are those who rely on counters for part of the gameplay IE. Bayman, Leifang, and Hayabusa. Everyone else's counters are pretty toned down. I don't think Sarah(or any VF character) really needs a buff, compared to some of the DOA characters :/

Well yeah that's a good point... I guess maybe since she is going to be my main I wanted her to be the best! But what I WILL say is that her counter reversal holds should be buffed up just a little bit! That's it & she will be perfect! =]

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

Well yeah that's a good point... I guess maybe since she is going to be my main I wanted her to be the best! But what I WILL say is that her counter reversal holds should be buffed up just a little bit! That's it & she will be perfect! =]

I understand that lol I can't wait to see more VF action from you or anyone good in general. I really wish a really good Akira would come out of the wood works now that I've seen Sarah Bryant in action. You did really good with her. Well, to me it seemed really good, I honestly have no idea how any of the VF characters will play other than some vids I've seen. Also, just wondering, I noticed in the beginning of the stream they had a guy showing some Sarah action through a camera and it looked like Sarah was DESTROYING wake up kicks. What move is obliterating wake up kicks from her?

 

[Steady G]

I understand that lol I can't wait to see more VF action from you or anyone good in general. I really wish a really good Akira would come out of the wood works now that I've seen Sarah Bryant in action. You did really good with her. Well, to me it seemed really good, I honestly have no idea how any of the VF characters will play other than some vids I've seen. Also, just wondering, I noticed in the beginning of the stream they had a guy showing some Sarah action through a camera and it looked like Sarah was DESTROYING wake up kicks. What move is obliterating wake up kicks from her?

Yeah but I would have did a lot better with Sarah if I had a chance to practice with her like some of the others but im not complaining. I made it to 4th place without any practice soo thats good. Yessss! I noticed A LOT of moves I could have done with her.. But to answer your question, that move was the . I should have took advantage of that move but I didn't.. =[ Also, haha I talk a lot but Akira, YES it would have been good to see a good Akira player.. Smh I thought August (the young Akira player at the San Mateo tourney) was about to show us something new... Haha

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

Yeah but I would have did a lot better with Sarah if I had a chance to practice with her like some of the others but im not complaining. I made it to 4th place without any practice soo thats good. Yessss! I noticed A LOT of moves I could have done with her.. But to answer your question, that move was the . I should have took advantage of that move but I didn't.. =[ Also, haha I talk a lot but Akira, YES it would have been good to see a good Akira player.. Smh I thought August (the young Akira player at the San Mateo tourney) was about to show us something new... Haha

Oh I know right!? lol I was hoping for a huge upset with August being like a kid who does nothing but play Akira. Oh well I thought it would have been pretty funny to see a kid beat Kayane, it would have been funny and ironic considering she is known for winning a tourny as really young player.

Well at least you'll(hopefully) remember next time to use that P+K

 

[Steady G]

Oh I know right!? lol I was hoping for a huge upset with August being like a kid who does nothing but play Akira. Oh well I thought it would have been pretty funny to see a kid beat Kayane, it would have been funny and ironic considering she is known for winning a tourny as really young player.

Well at least you'll(hopefully) remember next time to use that P+K

Haha yeah such irony.. Well the next tourney I will be at is after the game is officially launched so I would have some actual experience with Sarah! Ahhhh I cant wait!
Heyyy who will be your main in DOA5?

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

Haha yeah such irony.. Well the next tourney I will be at is after the game is officially launched so I would have some actual experience with Sarah! Ahhhh I cant wait!
Heyyy who will be your main in DOA5?

I honestly don't know who my main will be. Everyone looks really fun this time around.

 

[Steady G]

I honestly don't know who my main will be. Everyone looks really fun this time around.

I know that's exactly what I say! Im going to have to give everybody a try! =] Team Ninja did an AWESOME job on DOA5! =]

 

[Arnell Long]

I disagree with the bold section. I was playing Sarah at the San Mateo tournament & her reversal holds SUCKED! Even if I do a counter reversal hold, the same amount of damage was still be conflicted.. Im sorry but she needs to be more powerful.. It would be only fair because all the other characters' reversals takes twice as much as Sarah's... Im just saying...

You missed understood what I said. I stated that other characters should be buffed instead of Sarah being nerfed. Meaning since Sarah has been weakened as of late, they should buff her back up to her E3 form, then buff the cast to her standards instead of nerfing her instead.

I've been stating in other threads that VF characters damage output is less than the DOA cast which should be the other way around or at the least identical. Trust me bro, I fully agree with you, my wordings may have been a bit puzzling, but I concur 100%.

 

[Steady G]

You missed understood what I said. I stated that other characters should be buffed instead of Sarah being nerfed. Meaning since Sarah has been weakened as of late, they should buff her back up to her E3 form, then buff the cast to her standards instead of nerfing her instead.

I've been stating in other threads that VF characters damage output is less than the DOA cast which should be the other way around or at the least identical. Trust me bro, I fully agree with you, my wordings may have been a bit puzzling, but I concur 100%.

Yes! I agree with you bro! A 100 percent! Like you know how they show the characters stats in the character selection screen? Sarah stats doesn't even match her game play. -.- I HOPE they end up upgrading her because I mean she is still a good character, however I feel like everyone should have an equal win ratio.. Ya' know? Haha I dont know what im talking about but the bottom line is that Sarah needs to be improved!

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Ok so after a long ass day of tournaments (SC5, SFxT, Scullgirls, Blazblue, SF3:3S) I managed to pull off a seeding tourney.I made sure that I can try to get players that are not very familiar with the game to give it a spin.
Among the entries were:
- Ketchup and Mustard (arguable some of the worlds best MK players)
- Nicotine (one of the top UK players in Soul Calibur)
- How To Read (one of the top marvel players here in the UK.. famous for his crazy Viewtiful Joe)
The seeding was just to get a feel of the player skills. and I sat down with most of them and played a few casuals and taught them the basics of the system.

I do have the footage but unfortunately its from a camcorder as there were too may tournaments running today and the Majors take priority so streaming was practicly impossible. The general skill level is what you would expect from beginners. The finals were between ZeroEX (akira, ayane, tina) and MyCom(kasumi, Hayabusa), both of which used to play older versions of DOA. MyCom won and got the sexy swimsuit cube and will be seeded in Sundays main event. I might upload the semi finals and finals as there were some interesting things but honestly its kinda basic.

However there will be probably around an hour stream early morning tomorrow for DOA5 before the Majors where I will be doing some exhibition matches with both players and showcasing the gimmicks and setups of LeiFang, Sarah, and Ayane.

(on a side note I lost at top 8 in SCV lol... I'm so shit at it now. I forgot everything)

Also as requested, I did some experimenting with Tina, Lisa, and Rig (but I'll cover rig when I wake up.. too tired and theres a lot to say).

Tina:
- Tina has a Faint stun from 7K however it doesn't allow any guaranteed followup after as far as I'm aware.
- she has an unblockable 66PPP+K but you can see it from a mile away as its the 3rd hit in a string and also it can be crouched (its a high attack)
- The following moves guarantee a ground throw:
(vs. opponent in the air) 8P
4P+K
214P
6G+K
(back turned) P+K
- she has a very good mix up that leads to 2 guaranteed situations: KP (causes Limbo stun) and KK (causes turn around stun with guaranteed follow up potential)
- I'm very glad that they brought back a lot of her strings into throws and added new ones:
K H+P
6K H+P
6PP6K H+P
7PP H+P
- just like before her 8P is a sit down stun.
Over all I think shes a beast. Her damage output is really good and so is her mix up potential she can be really nasty in capable hands. (infact this DOA5 favors grapplers in the damage department it seems .. they just hurt)
- her advanced mid K hold puts the opponent in back turned state but I'm still not sure if it guarantees anything. (not so sure it does.)


Lisa:
Lisa feels like she changed quite a bit. she still relies on gimmicks but she also gained like 1 or 2 safe(er) options from each of her strings.
- she has this new fake P+K H... making her do a fake jump forward without dealing a strike or a throw. this can be done from the following strings:
PPP P+K H
9K P+K H
(back turn) P+K H
9P
from this stance you can follow up with 2 options either P+K for a strike or H+P for a throw (the transitions are really quick)
- her new run cancel can be done from the following:
PPK6
7K6
4H+K6
1H+K6 (this 1 cancels her charge attack at any point you press 6 total mind fuck since she suns forward)
I don't know if I would consider this a stance as she has the exact same properties when you do run attacks. and she can cancel her run by simply pressing 4 or H
- from the running she can either
P(high),
K(high), (you can repeat the run state by pressing K6)
P+K(mid),
H+K(low),
H+P (offensive hold)
- she has a crazy long range power blow
- she has several moves that lead to back turn state:
6PK4
6P4P
K6K4
2KK4
KKK
- her crouch throw 3H+P.H+P causes some crazy fucking launcher that allows really good air juggling
- she has 4 turn around stuns:
4P6K
2KP6K
Sidestep K
H+K
- she has 2 sit down stuns:
(counter) KKK (puts her in back turn)
(counter) 9K
her offensive holds are running H+P, 8H+P, 66H+P
- Overall I think shes a lot more solid than before and I wouldn't consider her crap just yet. Shes just harder to learn especially with all the crazy shit.. the forward jump fake from (P+K H) moves is a bit funny execution-wise but its so dirty when you're on the offense.I actually like how she turned out a lot.

Rig: (or as people are calling him ... Motha Fucking Rig! )
Rig's awesome as hell but he is by no means easy to pick up. His moves may seem too similar at first making it hard to find what you're looking for. His High/Mid/Low mix-up is by far one of the best I've in the game its so damn confusing you really start to ask yourself at first was that a high or a mid!? Also, that fucker keeps transitioning into stance so much which I think will make him fun for beginning mashers but tough to master for pros.
Now I didn't get to mess with him much and I don't know how informative this info is going to be since not many have seen his move list... but here's my findings so far:
- his flamingo is called Kubryoo Sogi (but we'll just say KS for short). he gets into it from so many damn strings.
PPPK
PPKK
6P2KK
K
KK
K2KK
9K
6K9K
4K
4KK
3KK
3K2KK
1KK
236K
(KS) K
(KS) KK
(KS) 4K
(KS) 4KK
(KS) 2KK
(KS) 6H+K
(KS) H+P
4P+K (his no damage transition)
- he also has this other stance called "Tolgi" where he does a quick forward twirl before he also enters (KS) stance. from the twirl before KS you get a shit ton of attack options just to add to the confusion. He gets into it from:
PP4
KK4
6P+K (no damage transition)
(back turn) P+K no damage transition)
(KS) KKK4
(KS) 6PK
- this guy has 4 sitdown stuns. As far as I'm aware they can all lead to his 33K launcher (don't quote me on it)
7P
(counter) 7K
(KS) P
(KS) KK6K
- he has a turn around stun from (KS) 4H+K
- his burst is P+K
- Powerblow is 1P+K
- he has transitions into backturn state (has a shit ton of moves from there too)
44K
(KS) 6H+KK
7KK
Overall hes really solid and like I said before confusing as hell because he seems to have every fucking option from every string its messed up but awesome. But if you just resort to mashing you'll notice that 99% of his strings just end up hitting high.. so that's how you expose mashers lol. he hardly goes into mid without a command input.

Update on Sarah:
her Moonsault stance seems to recover Longer than in VF making her follow up come out at a bit more disadvantage sometimes... and the transitions into moonsault are just as slow... particularly her 9K P+K transition (which is arguably one of her most effective in VF to make the 9K safer.. is her VF5FS 9K G+P+K for people that dont know what I'm talking about ) Sarah needs to be tweeked to feel better from a skilled VF Sarah player that knows her move properties, thats all I'm saying... They nailed down Akira really well hes good apart from the input fuck ups in this build but hes so damn solid.

Sidestep system is also very VERY solid now. I love it !

HOLDS NEED THE RECOVERY BACK FROM ALPHA DEMO AND E3 TEAM NINJA. THERE ARE FAR TOO MANY RESET SITUATIONS. PLEASE TAKE MY ADVICE I AM ON YOUR DAMN WEBSITE! this is really the only thing setting the game back .. its the only thing fucking it up and the only reason why its tough to get to burst... its the fucking resets... This shortening of holds is whats gonna drive people off... period ... I can't believe I'm gonna quote DrDogg but, TEAM NINJA IF YOU WANT THE GAME TO BE TOURNAMENT VIABLE YOU MUST FIXT THE HOLD RECOVERY BACK SO THAT THE TOTAL FRAMES OF THE HOLD ARE 35 FRAMES AND NOT 30.

I will be doing the Exhibition matches on Live stream within the the next hour or 2 right before sf4 at Twitch.tv/unequalledmedia
(gonna use Sarah/Leifang/Ayane... possibly mess with others but I havent mastered them down yet)

get on it guys!

 

[Arnell Long]

Lisa certainly has some tools I can work with, a heavy part of my game resolves around gimmicks. And a catch throw into a launcher? Now that's something I can get excited about. I appreciate the Lisa write up, about to take a few notes.

 

[BierKlauMeister]

COW got a question for you, Sarahs sit down stuns which can only be achieved on counter hit... can they also be achieved in Critical Status (opponent is already stunned)???. Or are they really Counter Hit ONLY?

Thanks, have a nice tournament

 

[MESSY]

OK I have been really busy recently. I am really disappointed that this i46 event is in the middle of bloody no where. I wouldn't mind if they charge more for the entrance fee, at least make it near London for good god!

Would like to say thanks to EC for his well made DOA5 cube, obviously he put heart into making them.

As for hold, I'm amazed how many ppl started criticising before actually PLAY the game. Hold is certainly a lot weaker now. A good player could find many ways of keeping you stunned and finally into CB, while using moves that are hard to hold on react or causing deep stuns. Especially for a character like Jann Lee who has a good set of moves that are leading to deep stuns. A good Jann Lee player can CB/Hi Counter throw his opponent with his eyes closed. At least from now any Jann Lee player won't be suffering from the so called 'DOA4 style gameplay'. Also Bayman's string starting from 3P is really good for building stuns and also he's got really good stun builders. So he won't be playing DOA4 either.

Trying to tell them to eliminate hold is NOT so clever. If you don't like the triangle system based on hold then don't play DOA. I have noticed many players coming from other games are really quick to complain. They haven't been looking into DOA's stun system, nor spacing, whiff punishment, 2-in-1 in DOA, yomi, okizeme... There is no shortcut that you can simply exploit DOA purely using knowledge from another game.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

COW got a question for you, Sarahs sit down stuns which can only be achieved on counter hit... can they also be achieved in Critical Status (opponent is already stunned)???. Or are they really Counter Hit ONLY?

Thanks, have a nice tournament

Yes they work ofcourse in critical
When i mention counter hit i imply both senarios in alk the posts
Her 6H+K is a great setup into burst.. unfortunately the other 2 push the opponent too far behind.. but in most cases allow a free 6H+K from flamingo.

I hope you guys enjoyed the stream..
I triex to showcase new stuf: )

Should be in the archives.. there was a short sf4 pause in between cuz they wanted to test it for the tourney after.

More info later.. im in SF4 wish me luck: D

@messy.. no1 wants to eliminate hold from stun... But if you played the e3 build and alpha you will notice that offense is alot more rewarded vs a wrong hold and the stun is rarely reset. In the gamescom build that shitty situation from older DOAs is back and its really frustrating and it limits chances for punishing mistakes and even building up to burst... It needs to be tweeked back to 35 frames instead of 30 .. its amazing how noticable those 5 frames are and how much they make the game so much better.

I hope TN are reading this.. and i hope the GVN guys share the same opinion..

 

[Allan Paris]

You missed understood what I said. I stated that other characters should be buffed instead of Sarah being nerfed. Meaning since Sarah has been weakened as of late, they should buff her back up to her E3 form, then buff the cast to her standards instead of nerfing her instead.

I've been stating in other threads that VF characters damage output is less than the DOA cast which should be the other way around or at the least identical..

Sarah does not need to be buffed. When was she weakended? If something was taken away from her to make her "weak" I can't tell. I suggest you go look at the IPL matches again and read the write up on her. Her holds being "weak" is fair, her and Akria pick up frame advantage and or are left at neutral from their moves. That means it will be difficult to punish them and they can legitimately and consistantly keep an offensive pressure. No doa character is doing that to Sarah or Akria's extent.

I dont know what im talking about

Indeed.

Re-read my first paragraph, sit, let it marinate, and know that you are maining a character that will be in a class along with Akria; that the doa characters will not be in. Some characters can hang with them but for damn sure not match what they can do.

Played against Akria last night. He hit me 4 times on CH and I died. That needs to be buffed? Sarah, just as fast as Kasumi and she's way safer, and her damage is nothing you want to get involved with. That needs buffs? The VF or at least Sarah's hold damage is well balanced.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Sarah does not need to be buffed. When was she weakended? If something was taken away from her to make her "weak" I can't tell. I suggest you go look at the IPL matches again and read the write up on her. Her holds being "weak" is fair, her and Akria pick up frame advantage and or are left at neutral from their moves. That means it will be difficult to punish them and they can legitimately and consistantly keep an offensive pressure. No doa character is doing that to Sarah or Akria's extent.

Indeed.

Re-read my first paragraph, sit, let it marinate, and know that you are maiming a character that will be in a class along with Akria; that other doa character will be in. Some characters can hang with them but for damn sure not match what they can do.

Played against Akria last night. He hit me 4 times on CH and I died. That needs to be buffed? Sarah, just as fast as Kasumi and she's way safer, and her damage is nothing you want to get involved with. That needs buffs? The VF or at least Sarah's hold damage is well balanced.

Being a Sarah main I think shes solid. Her hold damage is very reasonable. The only issues I have with her are the following:
- (FL)4K does not have a jump property like VF when shes clearly hopping.. it was a Low Crush and great for staying in flamingo vs a waking up opponent. This needs to return to its real property.
- transition into moonsault and recovery from moonsalt are way to long. This needs to be fixed to flow smoothly like VF.
I dont consider these buffs but fixes to things that should be there...

As far as her damage output goes... It could be slightly better but its quite ok to be honest. She has really good sabakis and a high crush launcher and setups guaranteeing damage from single hits... I think shes fine apart from what I mentioned.

As for Akira, believe me when I tell you hes good as is... Pretty strong all round

 

[Keylay]

snip

Please tell me that you were missing your followup after Ayane's BT Launcher. That is supposed to be her best launcher and I saw you do it at least three times and you didn't follow up with much. I'm going to be pissed if they nerfed the launch height.

http://www.twitch.tv/unequalledmedia/b/329874097

You do it at 5:02.