How do/would you want Leon and Ein to play in DOA5?

[Zeo]

Considering the possibility that we may get either (or both) of these characters (potentially ported from DOA5+) I'm curious as to how you Leon and Ein players would want them to play like in DOA5 on a technical level.

What should be given to them? What should be a sitdown? what should be guaranteed? what new attacks should they get? what should be their CB? stuff like that.

Let your imagination go wild.

 

[PJudge]

As long as Leon has the Arm Grenade, and the Neck Hang Tree, I'm happy.

In all seriousness, his Power Blow should definitely be ending with the Arm Grenade smashing your opponent across the map, similar to Bass'. I'm quite simple in that I'll be happy if Leon were to remain relatively similar to his DOA4 self, as that was Leon perfection to me.

 

[SilverKhaos]

they should play pretty much exactly like they did in DOA4.

Technical is dismissive in most matches, so as long as they have their signature moves, and Leon has his signature brutality, i'm happy.

 

[Ghosty-J]

I never understood Ein from a technical standpoint since I always just picked up the game and play. I guess he could have a new stance to switch to/from to separate himself a little bit farther from Hitomi than he is now and put in an extra bit of depth in the process. Bad idea overall, I know. Just give him some new moves and a power blow that looks flashy and cool.

 

[CyberEvil]

Ein has been my secondary/main depending on my mood since I first picked up DoA3 (trenchcoat for the win) and he's also one of the characters that has remained mostly unchanged. I'm OK with that. Considering the strength of his individual attacks, he's going to be very CB heavy, probably almost to Rig's level, with a decent amount of sit down stuns. That's EXACTLY how I'd want him to play.

Couldn't care less about Leon, to be honest, but I know some do.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

For Leon:

-keep a majority of his signature moves: air throw, arm grenade,water grab, desert falcon, tackle, choke etc...
-separate him from bayman even further(new counter and throw animations from the ones they share together)
-give him to ability to sidestep into his tackle and be at advantage on break like mila
-give him actual transitions into tackle from his attack strings(ex. 66ppp/ppk strings could mix up into 66pph+p into his mounted tackle
-guaranteed ground grabs like the rest of the grapplers
-33p,h+k mid kick, and his overhead double axe handle smash should be his sitdown stuns
-his p+k headbutt should be his critical burst
-a crapload of guard breaks. he was a guard break machine in DOA3 and i want that to return to him in 5
-his cliffhanger should consist of him running up to his opponent grabbing them by the neck and just falling down off the cliff choking him on the way down and as they land it he falls on top of them in his mounted position and can end it with one of his mounted options
-i have two preferences for his powerblow, one ending with a super version of his arm grenade pimp slap or the other ending with his spinning leg throw finisher from his 4part chain throw from 4.
-give him some of spartans unique moves. it would be a shame for those to go to waste and leon is a perfect fit for them

 

[Zeo]

I've been an Ein main since DOA2 and thinking about how he played in DOA4 makes me think he'd be a heavy hitter and like CyberEvil said, single hit based and CB heavy (Like Akira, how bout that?) but I've been thinking about the technical side of things too after a little experimenting on DOA4 and this is what I feel he should have (if he didn't have some of these things already).

- 10 Frame jab.
- 2p should be +1 on hit
- Make 3p 13 frames.
- Either 6P+K or P+K should be his CB.
- F+K should cause a crumple stun on NH and a BT on CH.
- 3p, 6p, ppp, ppkk, 66pp, 46p, 236p, 66pk, 4ppp, 6kk, 4k, 1kk, 6F+KKK and P+KP should all be safe and 6P+K should be safe from a distance.
- 8p, 8k (1kk), 3k should all be sit-down stuns on CH and in stuns and chainable into CB (yes guaranteed CB combos just like Rig).
- 46k, 236k, 7p, 9pk, 4P+K and the last hit of 2kk (pp2kk) should all be guard breaks with advantage on block.
- 3p, 2(release)k, 4k and 9p should all be crushes.
- 2F+K (and all strings that end with it) should be a sit-down on CH and the 2nd hit of 2k2k (pp2k2k) should be a sit-down on NH.
- 6P+K, 3k and 6p should cause unholdable stuns in BT and chainable for a guaranteed BT combo.
- 33F+K should be unholdable.
- 236k, 4ppp and 33F+K should cause a ground bounce with guaranteed followups on NH and CH.
- 66kkk should remain a natural combo on CH.
- 7k should once again become a launcher.
- The last kick of all his pp6pk string variants should remain a mid kick.

Now the new stuff.

- 4pp, F+K, 2F+K, the last hit of all strings that end with k (66pk, etc), 4k, 33F+K and P+K should all be tracking moves.
- He should get a punch finisher to his 66kkk string (236p acting as the punch would work nicely).
- 3kkk should be a natural combo on CH.
- The last hit of hit 4ppp string should be a new sit-down stun (on both NH and CH) and a standalone move (214p)
- His sidesteps should be the last hit from 1kp for the punch and 2(release)k for the kick.

And potentially the most controversial of them all.

- He should keep his standing and crouching OHs.

For anyone unfamiliar with Ein's moves, this should cover anything and assure you everything I'm saying he should have is pretty reasonable.

Finally for the power blow, his charging animation should be a shoulder blow and once it hits you he should do 3p > 6p > 66kk and finally ending with a 236p or a more unique looking punch finisher.

...Yeah I've given this a lot of thought.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

For Leon:

-keep a majority of his signature moves: air throw, arm grenade,water grab, desert falcon, tackle, choke etc...
-separate him from bayman even further(new counter and throw animations from the ones they share together)
-give him to ability to sidestep into his tackle and be at advantage on break like mila
-give him actual transitions into tackle from his attack strings(ex. 66ppp/ppk strings could mix up into 66pph+p into his mounted tackle
-guaranteed ground grabs like the rest of the grapplers
-33p,h+k mid kick, and his overhead double axe handle smash should be his sitdown stuns
-his p+k headbutt should be his critical burst
-a crapload of guard breaks. he was a guard break machine in DOA3 and i want that to return to him in 5
-his cliffhanger should consist of him running up to his opponent grabbing them by the neck and just falling down off the cliff choking him on the way down and as they land it he falls on top of them in his mounted position and can end it with one of his mounted options
-i have two preferences for his powerblow, one ending with a super version of his arm grenade pimp slap or the other ending with his spinning leg throw finisher from his 4part chain throw from 4.
-give him some of spartans unique moves. it would be a shame for those to go to waste and leon is a perfect fit for them

Yes to all of this.

 

[Lobo]

Yes to all of what fork said for Leon, especially sidestep tackle and guaranteed ground throws.

Arm grenade should be a GB with crazy lots of advantage so its actually useful this time. (If that were the case, I would probably use nothing else)

His juggles should have the option of ending with the more damaging air throw, or something like his 6K into guaranteed ground throw.

Don't touch his 33P unless you're gonna make it better, by being a GB or sit-down stun (although I think it being a sit-down stun might be a little broken)

If you're going to give him any new moves, give him a better mid-kick launcher. His old puppy-kicker just didn't cut it.

His 3K should be a sit-down stun on crouching opponents a la Bayman, so you can link together some nice CB combos. Something like [stun > overhead chop > 3K > headbutt (CB)] where you only have one guess to hold.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Please please give Ein his good vibration quote. Either as a win quote or a taunt.

 

[Dr Sexual]

If Ein comes back 1K MUST remain a force tech. Everyone saying he was a one hit power character either does not know what they are talking about or only understands Ein on a very very basic level.

Ein was best played as a constant pressure character with the bonus ability to whiff punish hard. 1K being a force tech was absolutely vital to his pressure game.

 

[Zeo]

Less relevant to how he's played, but considering TN doesn't really care about the guy's outfits, Ein would probably only have 4, which should be..

C1: DOA2 C1 (Signature look)
C2: DOA2 C2 (Blue Jean outfit with white shirt)
C3: DOA2 C5 (Karate Gi)
C4: DOA4 C2 (You should already know this one)

Please don't bring the shirtless red pants outfit back, waste of a slot.

Anyways, sorry about that.

 

[DR2K]

- He should keep his standing and crouching OHs.

Haha.... nope.

 

[Zeo]

Haha.... nope.

I knew someone was going to oppose this. I actually gave it a lot of thought, but the point is he needs something. He lacks the continuous pressure of characters like Kokoro, Akira, Jann Lee, Helena, Kasumi, etc, but he also lacks the defensive options of characters without that pressure like Eliot, Hitomi, Leifang and the like.

He's (as of DOA4 anyway) an unsafe and for the most part single strike character who has few defensive options and can't pressure safely and consistently. He needs some sort of defensive option, I wasn't sure weather to say he should get a parry of some kind, probably for mids, or simply keep his OHs. I decided on the latter.

 

[DR2K]

I knew someone was going to oppose this. I actually gave it a lot of thought, but the point is he needs something. He lacks the continuous pressure of characters like Kokoro, Akira, Jann Lee, Helena, Kasumi, etc, but he also lacks the defensive options of characters without that pressure like Eliot, Hitomi, Leifang and the like.

He's (as of DOA4 anyway) an unsafe and for the most part single strike character who has few defensive options and can't pressure safely and consistently. He needs some sort of defensive option, I wasn't sure weather to say he should get a parry of some kind, probably for mids, or simply keep his OHs. I decided on the latter.

Still, no on the OHs unless they become universal again. This is not the approach they should take with balance.

 

[Zeo]

Still, no on the OHs unless they become universal again. This is not the approach they should take with balance.

I agree to an extent, but considering the approach they ended up taking, I would say to give OHs to characters that need them only. Which is one of the reasons why so many people complain about Jann Lee's Dragon Gunner being an OH. Yes we adapt and deal with it instead of crying nerf, but he doesn't exactly NEED that.

I wouldn't mind a parry instead though. Starting to think about it, an OH for Ein would be a bit random and unfair to the other non grappler characters, still more fair than Jann Lee having one though.

 

[TakedaZX]

I'd love to see Ein a string like Jin's BF212 in Tekken. It's basically like Hitomi using 7pp 9H~P, but the first hook becomes a mid instead, is significantly slower. To go deeper, this could be a new element to his mix-up game, riding the place of 8p which could be moved into 8P+K or some other notation since it is a pretty slow punch anyway.

(If you want to see the actual BF212 just tell me and I'll give you a direct link to a vid with the timing where it's used).

So the strings could be started with 4P (or 44P to save 8p being moved) which could be the hook punch and would be a mid, that doesn't track. It can branch of a few ways.

• 4PP(m,h)
  • 4PPP(m,h,m) - Basically BF212, Mid Hook, into a high palm, ending off with a guts punch (Hitomi's 9H~P)
  • 4PPK(m,h,h*) - Hook, Palm, then ends with a spinning high kick, maybe like 6H+KK's second kick
  • 4PP2K(m,h,l*) - Hook, Palm, into 2H+K or maybe 1K. Debatable.
• 4PK(m,m) - Hook into 6k
  • 4PKP(m,m,m) - Ends off with punch after Hitomi's 4k. Could be a deep stun, could be a deep stun or knockdown but there's no follow up to this one.
  • 4PKK(m,m,h or m) - I was thinking it'd be just ending off with 6kk, but it could end off with a kick like Hitomi's 6kk or Hayate's 6k, but end with a knockdown instead of a launch or shallow stun, if anyone agrees with this one then I'd also consider the full string as 4PKKK (mimicking hitomit's 7pkkk).
    
    Problem is, this is a deep mixup game, and I have no idea what that'd do to Ein's playstyle.

 

[DR2K]

I agree to an extent, but considering the approach they ended up taking, I would say to give OHs to characters that need them only. Which is one of the reasons why so many people complain about Jann Lee's Dragon Gunner being an OH. Yes we adapt and deal with it instead of crying nerf, but he doesn't exactly NEED that.

I wouldn't mind a parry instead though. Starting to think about it, an OH for Ein would be a bit random and unfair to the other non grappler characters, still more fair than Jann Lee having one though.

I don't even agree with LF having an OH. I feel that it was complete overkill on TNs part. I feel OHs should stay with generally slow grappler characters.

 

[TakedaZX]

-give him some of spartans unique moves. it would be a shame for those to go to waste and leon is a perfect fit for them

I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but Spartan held a bunch of Leon and Bayman's moves. So I agree.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

I know people won't like it, but since I've always found Hayate very boring, I wanted him to have some of Ein's epic moves in DOA5-6 (4K, 46K, 236K, 7P, 3.K, 9KP, 7K, 3K+H, 33T) and some of his best costumes (karate gi, leather jeans/net t-shirt, red trousers/chains). This way, Hayate's character would be more interesting (both fighting style and costumes/art direction). Some of Ein's epic holds could be used for a new fighter (love them).

On the other hand, I want Leon to be back for good, as the "wild/manly/hairy/brutal brawler" stereotype we don't have yet. I think his presence is really necessary in the cast contrary to SM Ein. Mila and Leon should have a tag throw.

Please don't hate me. And eh, I wouldn't mind seein Ein as a DLC, that would be nice for the fans. That would be the proof that TN is listening to their fans, lovely.