3-Point Hold v. 4-Point Hold
- Thread starter MrMoon360
- Start date
Baron West
Member
That's not right. I don't know about DOAU, but DOA4 sold 1 million copies.
Sorwah...those numbers are not correct. 2.5-3 million copies is a lot. That's suggesting DOA3 did as well as Soul Calibur II on all 3 consoles, and outsold the PS2 Tekken Tag Tournament. That seems irrational considering the small user base of the X-Box.
Although if your source was using VGchartz it would make sense. You said it was a TV show IIRC.
Separate holds for jump punch and jump kick? That would make the most sense to me.
Also...you'd think that with a topic like this...there'd be a poll attached.
First of all, no one but Tecmo can say how much a game sold, and their numbers would be towards the retailer supply - not to the retailer's customers. Obviously though, if a supplier needs more inventory of a game that is selling well enough they'll buy more from Tecmo... if it's even being manufactured again.
Second, No one can say how many units a game has sold to consumers accurately. The best analysts admit that really they are just performing educated guesses based on their data of how many units were manufactured (if they even have that), the market share of the platforms, and the region(s) the game was released and sold by which markets.
Third, the 2.5-3 million number came from G4TVs episode of Icons for Team NINJA. I can only presume they got the number directly from Team NINJA which would mean numbers sold to retailers. Last I saw, DOA3 sold 1.5 million to North American retailers, and generally Europe was selling on par with some variance +/- to North America so I can imagine them selling 1-1.3million. DOA3 was also the top selling Xbox 1 title over the lifetime of the system in Japan with the Asian territories having a bit more success on the system than Japan so I can see Asia selling 4-500k units to retailers.
Fourth, DOA3 is one of those titles that had a long evergreen life due to its numerous platinum hits status and in the case of Asia - not much competition with Asian games. Whereas Tekken Tag Tournament was easily overshadowed on its sales with Tekken 4 and Tekken 5 to be released later. With that in mind, it's easy to see how DOA3 could outsell Tekken Tag Tournament and Soul Calibur II to the retailers when SCII never became even Platinum Hits on any of their systems and TTT I think was Greatest Hits for only a couple months after receiving the title.
Fifth, the numbers I quoted of DOA4 were from NPD reports I had access to a year ago, which are estimates of numbers sold to consumers, and that hit sales of 483k according to the NPD. Tecmo stated it broke 1 million in sales worldwide towards retailers though, not towards consumers - because they wouldn't have that data.
Lastly, it doesn't matter really which game sold more as each game was fairly dependent on the success of the systems they were on. DOA4 released on a system that was more expensive than its predecessor in a market that didn't really get any traction immediately due to shortages on stock. DOA3 released at a cheaper price, on a cheaper system, at a time where the system really had traction and build up across the globe. Both are good enough games to use for enjoyment in each of their own ways. There are a lot more factors involved in the sales data of a game besides just what it offers to a competitive fighting game player - though it certainly doesn't hurt sales if the competitive community enjoys the game.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
No sir, jumping has been removed from the game. An 8 Point System would have the same mid expert holds (2 of them) and the punches and kicks all separate holds (6 different types of blows).
Baron West
Member
1st & 2nd. Sure. No argument there.
3rd. As you already stated no one has 100% accurate sales data. G4 is no exception. Those numbers strike me as wrong. We can agree that it's a difference of opinion. I just think if the game sold that well, there wouldn't be such a sparse population both here and doacentral, but I'll agree to disagree.
4th. X-Box Platinum hits aren't a good indicator of sales. SCII for the X-Box actually was released as a Platinum hit, and it sold the poorest of any version., so go figure.
PS2 Greatest hits aren't indicative of selling a million copies either, since VF4 Evo was released as a greatest hit. I'm pretty sure games were released as Greatest Hits/Platinum hits purely to drop the price down. There were other games that were instantly released as greatest hits on the PS2. I honestly don't even remember Gamecube games having any equivalent of greatest hits on the boxes, but I didn't own the system or play many games, so I can't comment on that.
Greatest/Platinum hits seems to indicate more of a price drop than to indicate selling a million+ copies. I don't know when TTT was made into a greatest hit, but I don't think it reflected sales.
5th. Nothing to argue.
Last. There are exceptions to every rule. There are plenty of games that sold poorly on popular game systems(Insert Bloody Roar title), and there are likewise games that have been massively successful on systems with lackluster sales(VF2 on Saturn).
I like plenty of games that haven't sold well. I also dislike a lot of games that have sold millions of copies. However I've learned not to automatically dismiss things that don't appeal to me. My interest is trying to understand why something is popular even if I don't care for it myself. And that's why sales data is relevant. If a lot of people like something, it's got to be doing something right. At the end of the day, a hit is still a hit.
DBZ Budokai is a game, that I don't care for. It about as far away from a competitive fighting game as a fighting game can be. Yet it sold around 2.5 million world wide simply because it was a DBZ title. In my opinion there are tons of fighting games which have sold far fewer copies which are vastly superior in terms of gameplay mechanics, graphics, and extra features/game modes. And none of that matters to the people who bought DBZ Budokai.
I agree wholeheartedly on the competitive gamers. Often competitive gamers tend to overestimate how much they affect the overall sales of a game, when the casual gamers are the ones who contribute most to it's sales. Though just as you say, having a competitive scene for a game is a good thing for sales.
That actually sounds pretty good...although, it would still come down to mid hold/low hold most of the time.
PhoenixVFIRE
Well-Known Member
Unless they made body-position-type counters for moves that specifically use elbows, knees, shoulders, butts etc.. that can't be countered by high/mid/low counters, I can't really think of any of way to have anything higher than 6.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
There are still jumping/aerial attacks though.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
I was referring to the actual jump. That's what he was getting at in his post. Yeah, all if not, most of the characters do have some type of jumping/aerial attack.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
We send in the ninja to "remove" them?
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I'm not opposed to public beatings.
BlackOrochi
Member
For the time being, Team Ninja's position seems final. But I think there is still room and time for change, or compromise.
My order of preference would be:
1) 3pt Basic Holds (with lower damage, decreased active frames, slower recovery on a miss) + 4pt Expet Hold (with greater damage)
2) 3pt Holds (with lower damage, decreased active frames, slower recovery on a miss)
3) 4pt Holds (since we're in a democracy...)
My order of preference would be:
1) 3pt Basic Holds (with lower damage, decreased active frames, slower recovery on a miss) + 4pt Expet Hold (with greater damage)
2) 3pt Holds (with lower damage, decreased active frames, slower recovery on a miss)
3) 4pt Holds (since we're in a democracy...)
Raansu
Well-Known Member
No, just no. Why anyone would want 3 point holds is beyond me. I still get nightmares just thinking about it from DoAD. Even in 3.1 (where it worked) I still would of preferred a 4 point system. Mid attacks make up a large portion of the move sets in the game. At least we got 4 point holds finally. Ideally the system would be a 6 point hold, so be grateful your crutch is only a 4 point hold atm.
x Sypher x
Active Member
6 point would be nuts lol. Not in a bad way though.
where i stand right now is neutral..
like i said before the system tweaks already make holds weaker .. so at this stage 3 point or 4 point is fine by me ...
i can see how the advantages of 4 point come into play ..
but also the disadvantages of 4 point ...
does this mean that height properties of moves will change back to what they used to be?
to create a mid mixup again? or are they keeping the high/mid mixups?
im interested to know this the most for whoever has access to the new builds..
like i said before the system tweaks already make holds weaker .. so at this stage 3 point or 4 point is fine by me ...
i can see how the advantages of 4 point come into play ..
but also the disadvantages of 4 point ...
does this mean that height properties of moves will change back to what they used to be?
to create a mid mixup again? or are they keeping the high/mid mixups?
im interested to know this the most for whoever has access to the new builds..