Are you happy with Last Round?

Do you like the direction Last Round is taking?

  • Right now I'm worried about the lasting appeal of Last Round.

    Votes: 49 61.3%
  • So, far everything looks good, and I'm content with what I'm seeing from Last Round.

    Votes: 31 38.8%

  • Total voters
    80

Darkton93

Well-Known Member
I can understand frustration with LR but I don't understand this obsession over stages. DOA is probably the only fighting game where people are more concerned with stages and hairstyles over movelists and balance
If the conversations about the lack of balance are anything to go by, it means we want both. As for the stages, DOA used to be known for some really good stages. They were unique, and had a different type of environment, with cliffs you could fall down, stairs you could roll down, and obstacles in the way. Right now, the current crop of stages doesn't look very good, being mostly boxes, so the fans have asked for older stages because they were quite good. And denying a certain group access to stages doesn't exactly sit well with them.
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
So, you wouldn't mind 500 DOA6 iterations, then? I'm not absolving the other genres, but I'm not stupid either! The Maddens, 2K--, CoD are selling like hotcakes and what's different? Nothing! All of these games have very small enhancements; thus, "every thing is the same." People lost it with FIFA! "13 looks exactly like 14!" But wait! My main's costume? They just yanked it off Kasumi and threw it on Alpha! (I expected better)

Therein lies the problem: trying to appease the fanbase, but only the part that nods and grins while the ones that don't have to grin and bear it! But I evoked a double-standard when I have done no such thing! The sport/shooter analogy = I expect it! Fighting games = I don't! Both are milking shit; yet how can everybody give EA shit, but not TN? If every dev can/should get shit from folks who aren't pleased with what is offered before them ... and you come at me about double-standards! Really?

I'm a huge DOA. If there's a DOA I'm buying it. TN is supporting the game and adding new content, why are people so upset? It's an DLC upgrade for Ultimate players. And a new game for next gen buyers. Fans also requested this as well.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
I can understand frustration with LR but I don't understand this obsession over stages. DOA is probably the only fighting game where people are more concerned with stages and hairstyles over movelists and balance
Because DOA is also the only fighting game where stages are part of the equation, not just a background texture.

Doas 234 were known for the stages being full environments. 1 and 5 however were just empty boxes. Since they brought back doa3 stages I don't even play 5s stages anymore if I can help it, with a few exceptions.

Also dear god bring back aerosmith. Nothing kills hype faster than misplaced rap. Doa5 and MKX both made that mistake.

Rap is not fight music. It is for just standing around.

(Apologies, I played through 5s story again in vanilla and forgot about the shitty shitty rap as I have it eternally banished in ultimate)

Seriously. Fuck stages, hair, costumes and characters. Bring back Aerosmith demo reels/opening, and story/arcade ending credits songs.

That or playable Steven Tyler.
 

CyberEvil

Master Ninja
Staff member
Administrator
Premium Donor
Bokuho, I deleted your post. Trying to keep a more even level here and petitions are the exact opposite. Feel free to post it in your status or something, though.
 

werewolfgold

Well-Known Member
While, I don't think that I'm being punched in the face by Team Ninja by any means, I can kind of see how we got to this point on the complaining tip.

1. There have been several "remakes" for the current gen that really tried to revamp everything. Lighting, character models, hair, etc. Tomb Raider and The Last of Us for example. Hell, even Injustice's re-release had textures that were 4x the size of those on the last gen, even though the models or anything didn't really change. So, when people think of moving over to the new generation, these are probably a few things that they think of as examples. People can even think of things like Tekken 5 into Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection if you want to go back a little further.

2. In addition to that, people were probably thinking that we would at least get a comparable jump from Ultimate to LR as it was from Vanilla/Plus to Ultimate. I mean, they did change the name after all. If they were just like, "We're going to port Ultimate to PS4/Xbone" and just said even more new characters or something were in the pipeline, no one would've cared. But, no, this is a new version that they're making. The pinnacle. So on and so forth.

3. Because of how powerful the current-gen is (not as powerful as the almighty PC, though, right?), people saw a lot of potential for improvement on the things people thought were lacking in DOA5U. Hell, @Tyaren complains about stage textures in every other post he makes. So, people started letting their imaginations run wild in the Suggestions thread. New win poses, better textures, new moves, gameplay changes, anti-aliasing, updated UI, alternate stage versions, etc. Maybe gussying up the hair even more. I personally think that new character models were never gonna happen. But hey, as I stated, that happened for some other next-gen remakes, so the thought may have crossed people's minds, and the improvement would've been welcome. I don't think that people wanted miracles, but I think they thought that there'd be a clear visual difference. If they were going to fork over another $30 - 40 (or whatever currency), then they wanted it to be worth it.

4. So, with all of the videos released, basically people are seeing...more particle effects (which I don't think was on anyone's minds) and tEh SoftNesS enGinE (which no one cared about to even consider as a possibility) and that's about it visually. The lighting is better. But, if any of the textures are any better, it's not immediately apparent. I'm sure Tyaren would know. The aliasing doesn't even look any better in-game. So, people are going to be a little disappointed with the potential that was possibly wasted. There do seem to be a few balance tweaks, but that's something that could've happened without a new release. More costumes? We've always been getting that. So, hype isn't going to be ridiculously high on that, even with the fact that they are fan designed. Also something that didn't really need a new title. New stages? Welcome. But, new stages have been added to Ultimate in the past. Hairstyles? Sure. People have been asking for more options for Rachel and Momiji forever. Oh, what's that? Kasumi, Ayane, Tina, Kokoro, and Hitomi get new hair? ...I haven't heard anyone say anything about that, but okay. Momiji and Rachel have nothing more as of now? Ohhhh, boy.

5. And then, the revelation happened that PS3/360 isn't even going to get new stages or hairstyles? When the reasons for cutting them are dubious at best? Welcome to the powder keg. And it's likely that it's only those two stages. Yeah, Tekken pulls in more money, but for comparison's sake, T5 DR added alternate versions of every single stage in T5 and new ones on top of that. Not as elaborate as DOA5's obviously, but the sheer number of them would balance that out. But, let's say that LR will get more than two stages with time (like Lorelei and Zack Island added later). Will the previous gen continue to get nothing? I'm sure many think that there's nothing stopping them from doing that. Yeah, it's time to move on to the current gen. But, for many that's becoming an investment of more than 400 bones. Probably not worth it, so they're just left with a feeling of being shafted.

TL;DR: People had expectations comparable to DOA5 into Ultimate as well as maybe some revamps like Tomb Raider. People don't feel that what's being offered justifies a "new title" (I personally kind of don't). If they had just announced they were porting "Ultimate" to current-gen, I don't think the backlash would have been this bad.

Anyhoo, as it stands, it seems like more people than not feel like it's not worth it. People generally have a distaste for rereleases as of late. So, if it's not pulling out all of the stops, people are going to let you have it. This is especially salient because of what must be a constant inflow of cash from all of their DLC costumes, a barebones rerelease could be seen as just exploitative. TN may still have a few things up their sleeves that will change minds, but...

Nothing kills hype faster than misplaced rap. Doa5 and MKX both made that mistake.

Rap is not fight music. It is for just standing around.

(Apologies, I played through 5s story again in vanilla and forgot about the shitty shitty rap as I have it eternally banished in ultimate)
While you're entitled to not like rap, I'll (once again) point out to you that DOA5 is not the first time rap has been used in DOA. Also, I'll mention that rap has been employed rather effectively in various high-adrenaline games, including other fighting games. TJ Combo's theme in the new KI is pretty damn good, for example.

Seriously. Fuck stages, hair, costumes and characters. Bring back Aerosmith demo reels/opening, and story/arcade ending credits songs.

That or playable Steven Tyler.
Team Ninja has a message for you...
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Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Never thought I'd see the day I'd be agreeing with Nereus... but you couldn't be more wrong about rap in general. When executed properly, rap can be a beautiful thing in a fight scene, especially in fighting games.

Def Jam FFNY. SF3 Third Strike. Hell, TJ Combo's theme by Omega Sparx in KI Season 2 is an excellent example (seriously, listen to the lyrics). And don't get me started on Nujabes (RIP, BTW) and the fight scenes from Samurai Champloo.

But tastes in music will be subjective. Lucky for me, I'm semi-eclectic.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
It suits sometimes.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Qw88zQTxq48

But we're not getting Aerosmith anytime soon. That would just be Hayashi putting up the middle finger to Itagaki.
Also... licensing issues.

And even if that wasn't the case, Hayashi wasn't exactly vocal about being big on Aerosmith as Itagaki was. Itagaki himself said it was more of his way of getting through the pressures of developing the titles he did, which is why he went out of his way to put it in the games at the time. It was more of a personal expression, if anything.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
Never thought I'd see the day I'd be agreeing with Nereus... but you couldn't be more wrong about rap in general. When executed properly, rap can be a beautiful thing in a fight scene, especially in fighting games.

Def Jam FFNY. SF3 Third Strike. Hell, TJ Combo's theme by Omega Sparx in KI Season 2 is an excellent example (seriously, listen to the lyrics). And don't get me started on Nujabes (RIP, BTW) and the fight scenes from Samurai Champloo.

But tastes in music will be subjective. Lucky for me, I'm semi-eclectic.

I dunno about the others but I had to turn off music entirely in third strike and Doa5 vanilla because the rap was so bad it killed the mood for a fight.

The rap chosen for the mkx trailer was really poor choice as well.

Then again if you count bands like Disturbed as rap, because they are rapping, just to guitar riffs instead if bass beats, then I should rephrase that BAD rap isn't appropriate for fights.

What they usually choose comes across more as lounge music than anything else.

Also... licensing issues.

And even if that wasn't the case, Hayashi wasn't exactly vocal about being big on Aerosmith as Itagaki was. Itagaki himself said it was more of his way of getting through the pressures of developing the titles he did, which is why he went out of his way to put it in the games at the time. It was more of a personal expression, if anything.
Regardless, the aerosmith openings and endings became a signature part of the DOA experience for me.
 

Blazeincarnated

Well-Known Member
It ain't about rap music. MK is still way more popular than most fighting games. It made 11 million views in a mere 3 weeks and broke a youtube record. Can't say the same thing about DOA.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor

you forgot the best song tho, can we actually get a video game music thread going or something???
Be my guest. I just wanted to prove a point or two before I went back to talking about LR.

That being said, I hope they consider my custom loops for The PS1 OST of DOA1 and DOA++.
 

Aspect

Well-Known Member
Never thought I'd see the day I'd be agreeing with Nereus... but you couldn't be more wrong about rap in general. When executed properly, rap can be a beautiful thing in a fight scene, especially in fighting games.

Def Jam FFNY. SF3 Third Strike. Hell, TJ Combo's theme by Omega Sparx in KI Season 2 is an excellent example (seriously, listen to the lyrics). And don't get me started on Nujabes (RIP, BTW) and the fight scenes from Samurai Champloo.

But tastes in music will be subjective. Lucky for me, I'm semi-eclectic.

Never would've thought I would see a Nujabes fan on this forum.

Anyways, in terms of fight music... To me, anything epic goes.

I really like the metal type music from Blazblue, probably my overall favourite fighting game ost
 

Intelligent Alpha

Well-Known Member
I can understand frustration with LR but I don't understand this obsession over stages. DOA is probably the only fighting game where people are more concerned with stages and hairstyles over movelists and balance

Here's why: this is all tend to release! Balance? What is that? Movelists? What are they? You get it! Fans, and I hate to say casuals, but it's true; yet, you have graphics whores, too. "Let's cater to these people instead."

The stage thing: Master said it: Strategy! Easy win against Alpha? Pick a small stage and wall-screw all day long! Dojo which most hate - that's a bad stage since she can runaway all day, but running away is a strategy. (A term used to replace baiting since you don't wanna admit you got outplayed).

Balance? That will never happen! If I main a intentional glass-cannon! Seriously, there should not be patches period, nor would there be if QA testers took time ... are we gonna get a perfect game? No, not ever - but this band-aid lacing because scraps and scabs were overlooked. RTU said it: Devs can't win!

Their bosses are so eager to push games out the door just to compete though things aren't complete! 2/17/15? What was the original date? They wanna grab folks that want MKX (4/14/15). Are you kidding? MK has a much, much, MUCH bigger base! Take your time! Games are better when you do this? MK saw 4 years go by and a game in-between - Injustice! TR9 for SE and CD. The concept began in 2009. Game's release? 2013. Rise of TR? Holiday 2015! (And with the exception of 9, most of the games - though it saw yearly releases in its infancy (the first continuity) - have come out around the same time)

Stages again = strategy! MKX which looked to Injustice which had more strategy than MK9. Strategically placed interactive objects! Things you could throw/jump off of; valves you can turn; using buildings (aka transitions - which NRS did a much better job with in comparison) DOA = exploding floors and walls and someone may fall to their demise on occasion) Could you imagine an Injustice transitions in DOA? (The older games had transitions on par if not better than Injustice) The setups I always used when I got near one, but grew weary about if I made a mistake and tables turned! The actual environmental use in TFC 2014 - has it been that extensive ever? That was genius!

DOA5 = I guess you could count DZ juggles, but 95% they occur sans a DZ; yet, most are raving over the DZ stage (which isn't that great, imo. No disrespect to DOA2 where it got inspiration from) The exploding floors? (So, Lab wasn't enough?)

Balance again? That means nerf nowadays! No? You really would like for everybody to play the same? That would make for a dull game! Where would the strategy go? Launch somebody, guaranteed combo; yet, people don't see how letting the opponent just fall is a strategy, too! ie: let Alpha drop in position. WUK? Maybe. Maybe not. Fall on her back. Tech up? Maybe. Maybe not. Either scenario the opponent FTs even though neither action by Alpha may not happen! If she's on FT side of things, don't assume she'll immediately do it, but if she conditions you so you believe she will! Strategy!

The point is: Costumes are being shoved down our throats and up our asses! Can you blame us for not being able to see what else is there? (The Graphics vs. Gameplay argument fits here as well)
 

crapoZK

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
It ain't about rap music. MK is still way more popular than most fighting games. It made 11 million views in a mere 3 weeks and broke a youtube record. Can't say the same thing about DOA.
It also isn't about fan base. MK wrecks DOA in popularity, we know this already, lol. We're talking about if rap music fits fighting games as equally as rock music.
Their bosses are so eager to push games out the door just to compete though things aren't complete! 2/17/15? What was the original date? They wanna grab folks that want MKX (4/14/15). Are you kidding? MK has a much, much, MUCH bigger base! Take your time! Games are better when you do this? MK saw 4 years go by and a game in-between - Injustice! TR9 for SE and CD. The concept began in 2009. Game's release? 2013. Rise of TR? Holiday 2015! (And with the exception of 9, most of the games - though it saw yearly releases in its infancy (the first continuity) - have come out around the same time)
They should just delay the release of the game. So we can get all of the content that TN intended to include. It's obviously Koei, that's making them release the game that's in pretty much an Alpha-stage. Koei, probably held them back on what they can produce, because obviously, it costs a lot of money for more content in a game. And Koei are so cheap it's unreal. Koei don't like to spend money.

Stage and Maybe Character DLCs are maybe going to be a big thing in LR, because of the issue. Because TN didn't (or "weren't allowed" to) have time to develop it further before the deadline. Just like DOA5 Vanilla.
 

Intelligent Alpha

Well-Known Member
It also isn't about fan base. MK wrecks DOA in popularity, we know this already, lol. We're talking about if rap music fits fighting games as equally as rock music.

They should just delay the release of the game. So we can get all of the content that TN intended to include. It's obviously Koei, that's making them release the game that's in pretty much an Alpha-stage. Koei, probably held them back on what they can produce, because obviously, it costs a lot of money for more content in a game. And Koei are so cheap it's unreal. Koei don't like to spend money.

Stage and Maybe Character DLCs are maybe going to be a big thing in LR, because of the issue. Because TN didn't (or "weren't allowed" to) have time to develop it further before the deadline. Just like DOA5 Vanilla.

Wait! KT is cheap; yet, they milk shit? They make EA look good! :rolleyes::confused::oops: Note, making a point! However, they did a whole alot of "nothing" for the Ultimate versions of 2 and 5! Master posed the same question using DOAD - and get this: people are griping about the lack of support for 1st party games due to the stigma of "being family-friendly." This is why the "hardcore" games couldn't sell. The technological setback is BS, really!

Sony/Microsoft said just as much with current gen: no backwards compatibility; yet, at least for Xbox users, we have a passthrough - we still need two consoles. (Oddly, there was an emulator to play Xbox games on the 360, though not all) I'm thinking they had no intention of doing backwards compatibility, whatsoever, and tried to find something to justify it.

Somebody mentioned the new stages in LR being re-worked to fit last gen! My question would be: who's working on this? I ask, because Ed Boon for MKX said that there are two teams while his is solely working on current gen, the other is developing for last gen!

And then, you've got people who don't like cross-gen anyway. This would be highly ironic if they're playing multi-plats on multi-plats! But given the "Fraud Edition" that became of TR9; yet, I'm surprised no one is throwing stones because without the extra content, this is all LR would be! Yet, some would say Vanilla is this compared to Ultimate since they wanted Ultimate to begin with! Someone tell me I'm lying!
 
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