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Bayman Okizeme Tactics

Genereaver

Genereaver

New Member
A lot of the time you'll just want to get a quick :2::H+P: after your hard knockdown, but that pretty much just leaves everything back at neutral. If you want to keep the pressure on (or frazzle an opponent used to eating a ground throw after a hard knockdown), it's time for some force techs.


Here's the frame advantage of his force techs, and a couple options for after (if you have any I missed (went through the command training with each move after a knockdown, so I don't think I did) or any other/better options, please feel free to speak up!):
:2::H+K: = +12, but quite a distance away; I don't think anything can actually reach far enough to keep pressure.
:P+K: = +20, goes into DDT quite nicely, though they can of course duck it; predict a duck, and they're close enough for a :2: or :3::H+P:, or just a :3::K: for a nice sitdown.
:4::K: = +20, at the very edge of DDT range, but still within :3::H+P: range.
:9::K: = +11
:7::K: = +16, leaves you backturned for some shenanigans but too far to immediately pressure unless a wall is near.
:6::6::K: = +12, great if you're a fan of the Windmill Backbreaker.
:1::P: = +15, same range as :2::H+K:
 
Genereaver

Genereaver

New Member
I don't see :4::P+K: working, but :214::P: is solid (putting you in range for all of his backturned shenanigans), and I can't believe I didn't think of :8::P: myself.
 
S

shinryu

Active Member
1k, p+k should work and net a little more damage for your advantage. You can set it up from stun something like hold 3p, p+k, 1k, p+k for about 60 damage but it doesn't seem to work off any juggles. You are giving up quite a bit of damage relative to the Rikuto Standard Juggle (TM), but I suppose if it sets up a DDT the trade might be worthwhile. A couple reps of this and then DDT is basically the round. High counter rides on the windmill backbreaker are nice too.
 
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shinryu

Active Member
No timing required, just stick that big knee right in there.

This thread is becoming uncomfortable.

No, seriously, you can pretty well mix between h+k or one of the launchers at 11+ or better (so almost all force techs worth using). It's unsafe on block but if you get a limbo stun that's not too bad at all.
 
Souichiro

Souichiro

Member
shinryu said:
No timing required, just stick that big knee right in there.

This thread is becoming uncomfortable.
Click to expand...


Ah... That why i have always like this Char. other than Bus(Bass) he is the only other character that is: Brute Force personified :D
 
Rikuto

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
There isn't any real reason to do that in open space when you have other options like :P+K: at your disposal.

That said, there are variations that come in useful. You kids appear to be doing your home work so here's a freebie.

For example, on wall...

If you slam a standing opponent into a wall with something like :6::P::K: (or virtually anything else) you can force tech with :P::6::P::2::K: . This works 100% of the time on lights and mediums, you may encounter some slight issues versus heavies that can be rectified by simply slamming them from half a step farther back.

When you do this you are in easy range of :236::K:, :214::P: for backturned shenanigans pressure, or :6::6::6::H+P: (yes that is the correct notation as you'll have to dash forward a bit) to reset the wall pressure trap.

The nice thing about following up with that offensive hold here is that you get them at an angle which helps pressure them into a corner if there is one nearby, or it gives you enough time to re-align and hit them straight back into the wall if there isn't one.

That slump is rather amazing when it comes to frame advantage. The game says it's +19 but in reality its closer to around +40.

You can also time a quick release powerblow to break guard as they are getting up from it, which will guarantee a followup :K:, :P::6::P::2::K: if your angle is straight enough. This will completely reset the situation if they don't time the counter perfectly as they are getting up.
 
Souichiro

Souichiro

Member
Epic shit is epic. Your help is always appreciated =)

P.S. Basically after the wall bounce i had already figured out that :P::6::P::2: :K: force tecched but was clueless as to what the continuation should be due to the placement the characters get from the wall bounce. Both the opponent AND me.

Rikuto said:
If you slam a standing opponent into a wall with something like :6::P::K:...
Click to expand...

You sure this wall splats? I think this is a Punch-knee combo. Usually i use ppk, pk. on launch pkp or kp.
 
Genereaver

Genereaver

New Member
shinryu said:
1k, p+k should work and net a little more damage for your advantage. You can set it up from stun something like hold 3p, p+k, 1k, p+k for about 60 damage but it doesn't seem to work off any juggles. You are giving up quite a bit of damage relative to the Rikuto Standard Juggle (TM), but I suppose if it sets up a DDT the trade might be worthwhile. A couple reps of this and then DDT is basically the round. High counter rides on the windmill backbreaker are nice too.
Click to expand...
So :1::K: is a reset of the hard knockdown, or what? Because it's definitely not a forced tech.
 
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shinryu

Active Member
Genereaver said:
So :1::K: is a reset of the hard knockdown, or what? Because it's definitely not a forced tech.
Click to expand...

Sort of. On it's own 1k won't force tech but it gives you enough time to land p+k to force the tech. It's basically just a little more damage. Tina has something similar with 1p 6f+k, for example. You can just use p+k raw but this ekes out a little more damage and the timing is slightly more generous.

I'm kind of partial to the wakeup mixup being 236k or DDT at +20. Sidesteps are right out and blocking still gives you +1. If the kick hits then you're that much closer to the wall.

Edit: I'm actually wondering if this is an unholdable. Assuming that you're at +20, the active frames of 236k should come out on frame 21; since holds take a frame to activate, I think you'd hit them in the activation frame, wouldn't you? Bitch to time but there may be 18-19 frame moves that do the job too.
 
Rikuto

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
been there done that shinryu. cpu can hold everything, but the cpu is a damned cheat. not sure how it applies to humans. worst case scenario they would have to just frame the hold.
 
S

shinryu

Active Member
Well, I'll record and test when I get home. I'll see if I can find something 19 frames and with a good bunch of active frames and see if I can get out. Even forcing a just frame hold would be great, but wouldn't they just be able to buffer it into the recovery? I'm not sure how generous the game is on that after a force tech or anything.
 
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shinryu

Active Member
In the other thread, typically hold 3p (or whatever stun), 236p, 3k, 3p+k, f+p. That specific example will net you around 92 damage on normal hit if memory serves, vs 60 for the force tech setup I mentioned. So it's a relatively large loss of damage to go for the force tech. Unfortunately I don't think any juggles give him force techs but I wonder if he may have a safe force tech setup like Helena or Tina do. Basically Tina can use 6pp2p and then 1p immediately; it either forces a tech if they don't tech roll or only leaves her at -3 if they do. Bayman might be able to use something similar with 1k but off the top of my head I don't know. 6ppk could be a good candidate but I think you actually have time to watch for the tech on that one. I'll try it out and see with that too.
 
Genereaver

Genereaver

New Member
I've read every thread on this sub-board, and I had to figure out stun->:236::P:, :3::K::3::P+K::H+P: myself... Did I just miss his outlining it? I saw a set of combos for varying weights, but...
 
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