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Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate: Helena

Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
SomewhatMental said:
This does seem easier somehow, even if I'm not sure it was ever impossible.
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Weirdly Helena's 8P beats it but her jab doesn't. Same deal with Hitomi's 8P and not her jab. This is a problem seeing as if the opponent blocks the first part there is no need to block the second part now. Free cancelling isn't an option either seeing as she is at -7 and back turned when it's free cancelled.
 
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SomewhatMental

Member
Omegan Eckhart said:
Weirdly Helena's 8P beats it but her jab doesn't. Same deal with Hitomi's 8P and not her jab. This is a problem seeing as if the opponent blocks the first part there is no need to block the second part now. Free cancelling isn't an option either seeing as she is at -7 and back turned when it's free cancelled.
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Yeah, that will actually hurt a fair bit. I think the reason the jabs probably don't affect as easily is due to the space involved? It will be less useful for sure with the change
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
SomewhatMental said:
Yeah, that will actually hurt a fair bit. I think the reason the jabs probably don't affect as easily is due to the space involved? It will be less useful for sure with the change
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It can't figure it out exactly. 8P beats it but P loses so does 3P, 9P, 4P. It doesn't seem to be about range or speed, seeing as 3P is faster and has more range. Must be a weird hit box issue. It's funny that Hitomi's 8P wins but everything else fails too.

Just tested Momoji and again her 8P beats it but nothing else does... intriguing... no wait annoying.
Christie: 2P and 3P.
Tina: 4P.
Doesn't seem like Kokoro can beat it XD
 
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SomewhatMental

Member
Omegan Eckhart said:
It can't figure it out exactly. 8P beats it but P loses so does 3P, 9P, 4P. It doesn't seem to be about range or speed, seeing as 3P is faster and has more range. Must be a weird hit box issue. It's funny that Hitomi's 8P wins but everything else fails too.

Just tested Momoji and again her 8P beats it but nothing else does... intriguing... no wait annoying.
Christie: 2P and 3P.
Tina: 4P.
Doesn't seem like Kokoro can beat it XD
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Poor Kokoro. She needs a lucky break.

The good news is that unless someone knows they have a move situationally to beat it, the tactic will still basically work. Most people don't remember a single set up and a specific counter strike all that well.
 
XV MR ARMANI

XV MR ARMANI

Active Member
one thing I've noticed about Helena is her crush properties. if you do a move on block that's ends in crouch then immediately do a high crush move she stays crouch so it avoids the frame disadvantage.

2P > P+KP avoids both everything high & mid.
P > P+KP
P > 236P+K

these setups only work on hit.
BT 2P > 236P+K avoids highs, if opponent blocks you get +1
2P > 236P+K avoids highs, if opponent blocks you get +1


(66P > P+KP worked in vanilla but I found that out the day before I got Ultimate.)

all tested with Kasumi, its not a big find imo but it I know yall can find ways to integrate this.
this shit sucks I'm in the lab trying to find something. they might as well make Helena a grappler now she's slow as hell for no reason. from what I'm seeing from Helena, whats going to separate the TOP players from the intermediates is how fast you can get into BKO after certain moves, teishitsu, & then bait BKO throw whiffs.

edit: 214P+K needs to be +5 on block. its basically guaranteed for the opponent to get a free crouching throw or low attack after that move. they also need to revert 66P to being -5 on block.
I think in Ultimate they were more focused on Helena's combos & blender, not her real tech.
 
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SomewhatMental

Member
XV MR ARMANI said:
one thing I've noticed about Helena is her crush properties. if you do a move on block that's ends in crouch then immediately do a high crush move she stays crouch so it avoids the frame disadvantage.

2P > P+KP avoids both everything high & mid.
BT 2P > 236P+K avoids highs, if opponent blocks you get +1
2P > 236P+K avoids highs, if opponent blocks you get +1

all tested with Kasumi, its not a big find imo but it I know yall can find ways to integrate this.
this shit sucks I'm in the lab trying to find something. they might as well make Helena a grappler now she's slow as hell for no reason. from what I'm seeing from Helena, whats going to separate the TOP players from the intermediates is how fast you can get into BKO after certain moves, teishitsu, & then bait BKO throw whiffs.

edit: also imo her 214P+K on block will be useful to bait low throws and counter low attacks. I think this move will make people respect the stance a little more, well at least after this move.
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Huh. I can't make the timing work so that it ends that she really is in crouching afterwards. If it could be found, it'd be amazing.
 
XV MR ARMANI

XV MR ARMANI

Active Member
last thing.
on block,
H+K2 > BKO 4P+K
handslaps > BKO 4P+K
BKO 4P+K when charged avoids any high/mid followup from the opponent for the GB, when uncharged it whiff punishes a high/mid followup.
 
S

SomewhatMental

Member
XV MR ARMANI said:
it doesnt register on the move details box if that's what your looking at. her hitbox is in crouch though
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Ah, OK. Are we sure we are not just looking at the increased properties of the moves themselves? A raw P+K buffer beats out way more jabs in Ultimate than Vanilla, which I know just from having to jail certain set ups Gen Fu has been using.

last thing.
on block,
H+K2 > BKO 4P+K
handslaps > BKO 4P+K
BKO 4P+K when charged avoids any high/mid followup from the opponent for the GB, when uncharged it whiff punishes a high/mid followup.
Click to expand...

This has actually been hilariously fun to abuse when I've been doing it.
 
Rawbietussin

Rawbietussin

Well-Known Member
She's not meant to be played as a speed game character so effort must always be exerted. Then again, you can say that to any character you're not accustomed at using.

I am proficient with Helena but I can use Hitomi, Leifang and Kokoro well but not on a high level of expertise.
 
ninjaguy446

ninjaguy446

Well-Known Member
x MAD AXES x said:
Does anyone else thinks she sucks? I beat people with her but still feels I have to put way more effort in than my opponent.
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Just because you have to work harder for wins than some other characters (such as Rachel, Jann, Kasumi, etc.) doesn't mean Helena sucks. :) I don't think she sucks at all. :helena: She's... progressively getting better. She's gained a new SDS and a couple bounds. I wish she could return to her DOA4 state but that's in the past, so all we can do now is look toward the future. And remember, if anyone, and I mean anyone tries to get in Helena's way.. you know what she'll say.

You'd best pray to your God.
 
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