We are Fighters

System Details of the Weight Classes and the Launcher Heights

Discussion in 'Dead or Alive 5 Last Round System Discussion' started by WAZAAAAA, Apr 18, 2018.

By WAZAAAAA on Apr 18, 2018 at 2:34 AM

    WAZAAAAA Well-Known Member

    123 Fake Street
    Different characters have different Weight Classes. Because of this, a juggle combo might work on a lighter character, but not on a heavier one.
    Here's a list of each Launcher Height from the heaviest to the lightest. The long number represents in meters how high each character got launched in the air with a specific attack, which helps dividing characters into different Weight Classes. The + number is the in-game move details' frame advantage part that shows how much time the characters took to land on the ground from that launcher.

    CLASS 1 - 2.199795723m - +41 - (Heavy) Bass, Bayman, Leon, Rachel, Raidou
    CLASS 2 - 2.321933746m - +44 - Gen Fu
    CLASS 3 - 2.344943523m - +44 - Helena
    CLASS 4 - 2.355563402m - +44 - Brad Wong, Christie, Ein, Lisa, Nyotengu
    CLASS 5 - 2.357333422m - +44 - Akira, Hayabusa, Hayate, Jacky, Jann Lee, Naotora, Rig, Tina, Zack
    CLASS 6 - 2.381569862m - +45 - Leifang, Pai
    CLASS 7 - 2.404580116m - +45 - Ayane, Honoka, Kasumi, Marie Rose, Phase-4
    CLASS 8 - 2.415199757m - +45 - Eliot, Hitomi, Kokoro, Mai, Mila, Momiji, Sarah
    CLASS 9 - 2.656773329m - +49 - (Feather) Alpha-152

    - Mode: Free Training.
    - Launcher: Jann Lee 33P against a low throwing dummy. I wanted to achieve the highest possible launcher height and 33P is the highest non-PL mid launcher in the game that I know of. Striking a throwing opponent triggers Hi Counter which launches higher. Launching a Crouching opponent launches even higher.
    - Cheat Engine was used to retrieve more accurate Launcher Height values (in-game they are rounded to just two decimals). CT file is downloadable here.
    - Game client version: DOA5LR Steam Ver.1.10C.

    There are at least 6 heights that can be achieved from the same launcher, depending on the stun level, being standing or crouching, being front or back turned, and the Normal/Counter/HiCounter modifier. Here is Hayabusa launching another Hayabusa with 3P+K in several scenarios:
    - Normal Standing = 1.569000959m
    - LV.1 critical Standing = 1.607422829m
    - Normal Crouching = 1.637314796m
    - LV.1 critical Crouching / LV.2 critical Standing / Normal Standing Back Turned / = 1.764707327m
    - LV.1 critical Standing Back Turned / LV.2 critical Crouching / LV.3 critical Standing BT/FT / Hi Counter Standing / Normal Back Turned Crouching / Critical Burst = 1.860717654m
    - LV.3 critical Crouching / Hi Counter Crouching / Hi Counter Crouching Back Turned = 1.892233968m
    Please note that exceptions exist, such as:
    - Jann Lee 9K against Back Turned opponents launches significantly lower compared to Front facing ones (old issue, DOA2U had this).
    - Nyotengu 7K always launches at the same height (implying the same weight).

    - Competitive-wise, the heavier the better.
    - Launcher Heights seem the same in Solo and Tag. The reason Tag juggles are longer is because you can combo using two characters, and less moves cause juggles to end because the properties of many moves change there.
    - The official Weight Classes according to Tutorial Lesson 20 are 4: Heavy, Middle, Light, Feather... even though there are actually 9 as we have seen. Only the descriptions of Heavy and Feather are strictly true.
    - While it's true that "bounce height is not influenced by weight" (mentioned in Lesson 20.7, e.g. Hitomi 8H+K), the moment you hit a bouncing opponent once, Weight Classes will start to matter again.
    - Boss Hayabusa and boss Hayate are class 5. Boss Ayane and boss Kasumi are class 8.
    - Power Launcher Heights ignore almost every mechanic in the game, such as the character, Weight Classes, Normal/Counter/HiCounter, Crouching, Back Turned, Critical Bursts etc. and will usually launch at the same height every time (4.339696884m). The only way to launch at different heights with a PL is to hit someone whose body is not touching the floor. For example hitting Jann Lee's idle animation should result in slightly different Launcher Heights every time. Launching jumping moves such as Kasumi's 9P+K with Hi Counter timing will give a significant height boost too (I was able to PL her as high as 5.12938118m). This oddity does not apply to PL's exclusively:
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
    1. Lulu
      Great Work, Sweetness.

      Did you manage to Find any Class 5 & 6 Specificic Juggles ?

      I bet Akira has one... or two.
    2. DestructionBomb
    3. Mr. Wah
      Mr. Wah
      There is a difference between solo and tag in relaunches. For example, Bass' P+K.

      Weight class doesn't affect the speed at which a character falls, but the height they're launched when hit as well. With the exception of what you already listed.

      The weight class list made previously was done by using Bass' 9PP 3K 33P combo btw.
    4. Brute
      Pai being heavier than Nyotengu totally makes sense. Well done, TN.
      damn I'm a fraud I forgot the OTHER HEIGHT FACTORS section please re-read LUL

      no I'm lazy I just learn 1 juggle for heavies and 1 for the rest

      nice didn't know about that one, I guess it falls under one of the many moves with property changes
      and yeah I tried to stay away from discussing relaunchers because here be dragons

      don't forget that Pai is 2 classes heavier than Hayabusa and Akira and yet she has the best 9 frame jab in the game and two 11 frame mids kek
      Last edited: May 15, 2018
      illninofan, Jaguar360 and Lulu like this.
    6. deathofaninja
      Pai stores her fats well.
      Lulu likes this.
    7. Lulu
      I just watch Combo Videos and copy what I see. :)
      illninofan likes this.
    8. Mr. Wah
      Mr. Wah
      It's because in Tag the fall speed is less. Some call it "lower gravity" but that I think would be technically incorrect.
      Lulu likes this.
    9. YEH
      Thanks for the info, but I would like to know, does this affect wall bounce? cause it seems so at first but then Helena is heavier than Gen fu and Busa is heavier than Leifang what's going on.
      Lulu likes this.
    10. Force_of_Nature
      For the initial attacks after a wall splat: no. But any re-floats during the wall juggle will be affected by the weight class.

      Helena is heavier than Busa because she's thicc. You can generally perform practically the same middleweight combos on both types of characters in most instances anyway.

      GenFu is heavier than majority of the cast because of those iron fists getting heavier with age. Unfortunately his weight difference does lead to middleweight combos having to be altered or adjusted to work on the old fart.

      But yeah, TN must have been having some heavy drinks when they came up with the weight classes for DOA5LR.
      illninofan and YEH like this.
    11. illninofan
      Elliot lighter than Marie Rose. Kek.

      Still baffles me as to how she isn't the second lightest in the game. Should be the 2nd feather with Alpha, imo.
      Last edited: May 12, 2018
    12. YEH
      That's why this shouldn't have been called weight classes, with all due respect @WAZAAAAA
      I think you should rename the thread to Initial Launched Height or something, because weight class should be about the speed at which a character falls after a rebound, it's all about the juggles, and I can assure you one can do more to Leifang (Class 4) than can do to Hayabusa (Class 6), or maybe I just can't do certain juggles to Hayabusa because he's a ninja xD.
    13. Mr. Wah
      Mr. Wah
      Except the fall speed is constant across the entire cast. The Weight Class determines how high they are launched because they weight more/less than others.
    14. YEH
      I don't know what's happening exactly, it may be the hit box or something else, but I'm positive that Hayabusa isn't getting hit by Hayate in the last of a certain combo while with that same combo Leifang gets hit, but I need to have proof, so I will have to devise a way to make sure my input is always same frames, maybe I'll use autohotkey or some other macro tool, once I know I'll write back.
    15. Mr. Wah
      Mr. Wah
      Well, Leifang weighs less than Hayabusa, so that most likely is the reason why she gets launched higher in the air than Hayabusa, letting your combo connect on her and not Hayabusa.

      If the combo works at all agains these characters: Akira, Hayate, Jacky, Jann Lee, Naotora, Rig, Tina, Zack, Brad Wong, Christie, Ein, Lisa, or Nyotengu

      I don't know why Leifang and Pai are listed in @WAZAAAAA 's list as heavier than those characters. I'm not saying he's wrong, but it is the only inconsistency from my list and his.
      YEH likes this.
    16. WAZAAAAA
      I'm gonna re-test all weights because there's something definitely weird going on with Leifang and 3P+K but I want to know this first:
      who has the highest non-PL mid launcher height in the game? I found Jann 33P so far, with Zack 3P+K being pretty high too
      Last edited: May 13, 2018
      YEH likes this.
    17. YEH
      I've been testing for about 2 hours and I'm sure it should be like this, and if it doesn't show you that then the tool you use is broken or there's a memory leak, omitted multiplier, or some other thing missing with the 1.Programming or 2.Arithmetic operation or 3.Hardware
      @WAZAAAAA and thank you for the hard work you're doing.

      CLASS 1 - 1.571762323 - (Heavy) Bass, Bayman, Leon, Rachel, Raidou
      CLASS 2 - 1.572022915 - Gen Fu
      CLASS 3 - 1.595032930 - Helena
      CLASS 4 - 1.605653048 - Brad Wong, Christie, Ein, Lisa, Nyotengu
      CLASS 5 - 1.607422829 - Akira, Hayabusa, Hayate, Jacky, Jann Lee, Naotora, Rig, Tina, Zack
      CLASS 6 - 1.612723718 - Leifang, Pai The new number isn't exact, but a guess.
      CLASS 7 - 1.625733733 - Ayane, Honoka, Kasumi, Marie Rose, Phase-4
      CLASS 8 - 1.636353850 - Eliot, Hitomi, Kokoro, Mai, Mila, Momiji, Sarah
      CLASS 9 - 1.746837139 - (Feather) Alpha-152

      And yes, Ein is heavier than Hayate, he was being fed well by doa-tech secret labs.
      Last edited: May 13, 2018
    18. WAZAAAAA
      @YEH it's not an issue with the tools I'm using, because in-game the move details page shows the same thing with Hayabusa 6P 3P+K
      1.60 = Leifang
      1.61 = Hayabusa
      and still, Hayabusa lands on the ground 1 frame earlier than Leifang as if she's lighter. I'll re-test all characters with a different big ass launcher but I want to understand why this specific scenario happens too lol
      YEH likes this.
    19. Mr. Wah
      Mr. Wah
      I always figured it was because of his trenchcoat.

      I used Bass' full 9PP3K33P for my testing as that gave me more height than even Akira's just frame knee.
      YEH likes this.

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