They requested that knowledgeable DOA players not come to their previous press events with this same exact demo.
DOA5: New Gameplay Demo Trailer of Ayane and Hitomi
- Thread starter D Glock
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x Sypher x
Active Member
Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that. What a stupid request, they should have asked for feedback ASAP. Oh well, at least it is still in the early phases of development, so there is still plenty of time to fix whatever needs fixing before the location tests.
Team Ninja does not understand multiplayer and comparative communities.
Arnell Long
Active Member
It's not too late to change that track record and with some of our help, we can possibly change that record, even if it's just a notch.
Mr. Wah sent a gigantic list of feedback to them back in October/November. What they did with it I'll never know...
Arnell Long
Active Member
Well we can only hope they slip some of that feedback into the game as the development period deepens.
Hey, fun fact... They've technically gotten rid of holding during critical state in DOA5. Now that we have videos with the GUI, you can clearly see that there's never a critical state mentioned anywhere. Instead of actually fixing the issue, they just got rid of the "CRITICAL" text. =P
Arnell Long
Active Member
Whoa! That blows, well Team Ninja did say they didn't want any real feedback from the DOA5 demo, more so to get hands on with the direction they were going and to simply have fun.
But didn't they also mention they were going to gather some of the Community to test out the game once it gets into the later stages of Development? Kinda like DOAD is a sense...man, Team Ninja has a lot of time to make things right, like hope their time is "productive positive".
But didn't they also mention they were going to gather some of the Community to test out the game once it gets into the later stages of Development? Kinda like DOAD is a sense...man, Team Ninja has a lot of time to make things right, like hope their time is "productive positive".
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Who tested out DOAD before it was released?! loool, that game was done already.
Arnell Long
Active Member
Manny....
And that's why I said in a sense...so down the line Team Ninja may take some of our feedback seeing as how they spoke of hearing our voiced opinions and being closer to the Community as a whole. I just hope they listen and "act" on our requests. DOAD is done and over with, DOA5 is on the center table, lets just hope we get more than appetizers.
And that's why I said in a sense...so down the line Team Ninja may take some of our feedback seeing as how they spoke of hearing our voiced opinions and being closer to the Community as a whole. I just hope they listen and "act" on our requests. DOAD is done and over with, DOA5 is on the center table, lets just hope we get more than appetizers.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
I play VF, but Silent Legend plays Akira in VF. His primary reason for playing DOA5 is to make sure Akira is properly represented lol.
The necessary people have been in contact with Team Ninja and so far signs are good that there will be direct player feedback from knowledgeable players. Of course, what they end up doing with that feedback will be unknown until we see a build after the feedback is given, but it's a good start.
I personally want to see DOA5 please the casual DOA fans, the competitive DOA players, and people who play other fighting games competitively. To do this you need feedback from Manny (who isn't good at any other fighters), you need feedback from Sorwah/VPai (who have a great deal of knowledge about DOA, but also understand other competitive fighters), you need feedback from myself (who understands other fighters and isn't super biased against DOA), and someone like Justin Wong (who has never really given DOA a proper chance, but excels greatly at other fighters).
If you can get all of these groups to come together and provide feedback, you'd have an amazing DOA game on your hands.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
Arnell, you obviously don't know this, so, I will tell you. Manny nor did anyone else test DOAD before it was released. He for damn sure played the game, lol, to test it for its funability. However, he did not test the game as a tester would test it to make changes in the game. If that was the case I am pretty sure he would have told them not to put it on a damn handheld.
Yes, DOA5 is on the table, and pray to Allah, God, Buddah, or whoever it is you worship that TN does not follow the same route in testing for this game.
Lets not be an unrealistic optimist, see things for what they really are.
Yes, DOA5 is on the table, and pray to Allah, God, Buddah, or whoever it is you worship that TN does not follow the same route in testing for this game.
Lets not be an unrealistic optimist, see things for what they really are.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
DrDogg: you forgot my feedback 
Look, it is a bit weird to be seeking feedback based on an old demo but it's worth the exercise as TN will know what to use or ignore based on revisions they've already made. But what mechanism for feedback is there? They haven't made this at all clear.
I wanted to throw back into he thread and throw some in principle support behind Raansu's very reasonable comments and I think it was shouted down without fairly adjusting against old assumptions.
It's a bit extreme to say you HAVE to have DOA confirm to the expectations of the FGC. Those assumptions are built on game designed with largely the same sets of fundamentals but there really ARE things games like VF and DOA do differently and right for THEM which certain minds in the fgc raised on other games would not accept.
Just having a block button, for example is radical and "wrong" to a lot of people. For the genre to evolve and for games on the fringe of the so called fgc mainstream I challenge the status quo with a different approach, you do have to allow them to work on slightly different assumptions. So long as the game turns out balanced playable accessible and ULTIMATELY solid and sensible, not in fgc theory land but in practice, it will be ok.
Things like blows beating throws is a smart and logical, feature of Doa's gameplay is heresy or unhear of just because other games don't do it. But fuck it, Doa does it and it's BETTER. (of course we need throw escapes but that's not the point)
So in the argument about stun system and holds, we do not have to hold our approval to random for One solution that we think of; eg not holding out of criticals.
I think on the basis of info we have to work with, it's an elegant systemic solution. But let's not put the blinkers on and say that's the only solution. TN can work the system in any number of ways to give the result we want without using the sole method we advocate. They may be reworking the stun system (lack of criticals could be a good thing). They could be adding unholdable moves or reducing active frames, damage and increasing recovery.
We don't have hard data on a lot of these subtle but key elements.
So I'm not going to be praying. I'll be looking for the evidence and building on that. For now it's best to admit we still don't know a lot of key information to draw definitive solutions. And it would be nice to appreciate Doa does some things differently, and well.
Side note on Akira, my main vf sparring partner is an Akira expert and was very appreciative of what he saw in Doa, saying they had his moves right and it was a very respectful representation. Beyond that, we don't know how his play will feel. It just looks right so far.
Look, it is a bit weird to be seeking feedback based on an old demo but it's worth the exercise as TN will know what to use or ignore based on revisions they've already made. But what mechanism for feedback is there? They haven't made this at all clear.
I wanted to throw back into he thread and throw some in principle support behind Raansu's very reasonable comments and I think it was shouted down without fairly adjusting against old assumptions.
It's a bit extreme to say you HAVE to have DOA confirm to the expectations of the FGC. Those assumptions are built on game designed with largely the same sets of fundamentals but there really ARE things games like VF and DOA do differently and right for THEM which certain minds in the fgc raised on other games would not accept.
Just having a block button, for example is radical and "wrong" to a lot of people. For the genre to evolve and for games on the fringe of the so called fgc mainstream I challenge the status quo with a different approach, you do have to allow them to work on slightly different assumptions. So long as the game turns out balanced playable accessible and ULTIMATELY solid and sensible, not in fgc theory land but in practice, it will be ok.
Things like blows beating throws is a smart and logical, feature of Doa's gameplay is heresy or unhear of just because other games don't do it. But fuck it, Doa does it and it's BETTER. (of course we need throw escapes but that's not the point)
So in the argument about stun system and holds, we do not have to hold our approval to random for One solution that we think of; eg not holding out of criticals.
I think on the basis of info we have to work with, it's an elegant systemic solution. But let's not put the blinkers on and say that's the only solution. TN can work the system in any number of ways to give the result we want without using the sole method we advocate. They may be reworking the stun system (lack of criticals could be a good thing). They could be adding unholdable moves or reducing active frames, damage and increasing recovery.
We don't have hard data on a lot of these subtle but key elements.
So I'm not going to be praying. I'll be looking for the evidence and building on that. For now it's best to admit we still don't know a lot of key information to draw definitive solutions. And it would be nice to appreciate Doa does some things differently, and well.
Side note on Akira, my main vf sparring partner is an Akira expert and was very appreciative of what he saw in Doa, saying they had his moves right and it was a very respectful representation. Beyond that, we don't know how his play will feel. It just looks right so far.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
DrDogg: you forgot my feedback
The names were mainly examples of player types. You'd fall under the same mindset as myself: someone who sees the potential in DOA, but wants a better game than what we've seen out of the series thus far.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
DrDogg: you forgot my feedback
Look, it is a bit weird to be seeking feedback based on an old demo but it's worth the exercise as TN will know what to use or ignore based on revisions they've already made. But what mechanism for feedback is there? They haven't made this at all clear.
I wanted to throw back into he thread and throw some in principle support behind Raansu's very reasonable comments and I think it was shouted down without fairly adjusting against old assumptions.
It's a bit extreme to say you HAVE to have DOA confirm to the expectations of the FGC. Those assumptions are built on game designed with largely the same sets of fundamentals but there really ARE things games like VF and DOA do differently and right for THEM which certain minds in the fgc raised on other games would not accept.
Just having a block button, for example is radical and "wrong" to a lot of people. For the genre to evolve and for games on the fringe of the so called fgc mainstream I challenge the status quo with a different approach, you do have to allow them to work on slightly different assumptions. So long as the game turns out balanced playable accessible and ULTIMATELY solid and sensible, not in fgc theory land but in practice, it will be ok.
Things like blows beating throws is a smart and logical, feature of Doa's gameplay is heresy or unhear of just because other games don't do it. But fuck it, Doa does it and it's BETTER. (of course we need throw escapes but that's not the point)
So in the argument about stun system and holds, we do not have to hold our approval to random for One solution that we think of; eg not holding out of criticals.
I think on the basis of info we have to work with, it's an elegant systemic solution. But let's not put the blinkers on and say that's the only solution. TN can work the system in any number of ways to give the result we want without using the sole method we advocate. They may be reworking the stun system (lack of criticals could be a good thing). They could be adding unholdable moves or reducing active frames, damage and increasing recovery.
We don't have hard data on a lot of these subtle but key elements.
So I'm not going to be praying. I'll be looking for the evidence and building on that. For now it's best to admit we still don't know a lot of key information to draw definitive solutions. And it would be nice to appreciate Doa does some things differently, and well.
Side note on Akira, my main vf sparring partner is an Akira expert and was very appreciative of what he saw in Doa, saying they had his moves right and it was a very respectful representation. Beyond that, we don't know how his play will feel. It just looks right so far.
It's a nice thought.
Some competitive players will play mortal kombat, despite the fact it has a block button and a combo breaking mechanic thats limited by meter.
Some competitive fighters will play soul calibur despite the fact it has meter and GI's.
And now the reality.
No one from any scene, anywhere, will play DOA. Because it's bullshit.
You can be as optimistic as you want to be, but you'd be hammering your head against more than a decade of history that will stand defiantly in front of you and prove you wrong once again and when it does, you will wish you had been more active about voicing your discontent for the hold in stun.
The only thing that can save the series competitively is a big fat article on the front page of SRK that says "DOA 5: HOLDS REMOVED FROM STUN!"
I feel that I should acknowledge this. This trailer is purposely short and the title of this trailer is "DOA5 CE Demo Vignette." Vignette, according to Merriam-Webster, specifically means "a short descriptive literary sketch" or "a brief incident or scene (as in a play or movie)." The point of this trailer was to give people a quick taste of the DOA5 demo. Its length is intentional and has nothing to do with actual match length.
Game Over
Well-Known Member
Another suggestion just occurred to me ...
What if DOA5 incorporated some form of "Stun Meter" or "D.Hold Meter" (or both) where:
Stun Meter -- meter that builds with each hit during a match, decreases slowly, and triggers CRITICAL STUN when full
(when not full, attacks landed without launch or knockdown properties cause various lengths of hit-stun, granting frame advantage to the attacker in most situations)
D.Hold Meter -- meter that is full by default, is emptied upon the activation of a D.Hold, and refills over time (~3-5 secs)
(a player is only able to activate a D.Hold when this meter is full ... if a D.Hold is activated and whiffs, the player is then vulnerable to any landed attack during the recharge of this meter)
What if DOA5 incorporated some form of "Stun Meter" or "D.Hold Meter" (or both) where:
Stun Meter -- meter that builds with each hit during a match, decreases slowly, and triggers CRITICAL STUN when full
(when not full, attacks landed without launch or knockdown properties cause various lengths of hit-stun, granting frame advantage to the attacker in most situations)
D.Hold Meter -- meter that is full by default, is emptied upon the activation of a D.Hold, and refills over time (~3-5 secs)
(a player is only able to activate a D.Hold when this meter is full ... if a D.Hold is activated and whiffs, the player is then vulnerable to any landed attack during the recharge of this meter)
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
DOA5 can still be a good game even with the ability to hold out of a stun. For example, give me a launcher that ignores counterholds. Problem solved.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I think it can be a good game. Just not one that's actually accepted by people.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
People are already accepting it based on the Akira trailer alone. If you can get around holds, it won't be an issue. No one will complain if you stun an opponent, they attempt a hold and go right through the hold, counter hit launching them for 40%.