Female to male ratio and how to re-market doa back as a genuine fighter

[YEH]

Hi everyone, well, to get things started, I wanna say that I've played many fighting games before, and yet I never played Dead or Alive before because it doesn't have any presence in our part of the world {middle east} unless you know it by yourself, there's a very well known FSD member @EMPEROR_COW who is from nonetheless, but the thing is, I for example was wowed by this game after I gave it a shot (about this time last year, i.e. first quarter 2017) since then I'm playing it regularly or at least watching tourneys and live streams, so we come to the part where this thread comes in:

While I was playing with my ~5 years old relative just to make him stop shouting and running around the house after his sugar overdose, and I didn't want to play other games (they became pale in my eyes, more on that later), he said "Kalson" (which means panties), and I was like whaaaaaaat!, my sister said yeah look, it's full of see the underwear while clothes reveal from jumping and whatnot, and mostly women as characters, I was like yeah and bikinis which you haven't seen yet, so what?, this game has a very solid game-play and chances that someone win by mashing buttons and super duper projectile moves spam thingy is way less than others, and then came the kid with choosing Lisa(La Mariposa) he said he likes the glitter and feathers, I was like: go ahead (in my mind), but I think you know what's next, loads of comments from everyone who saw us play, too tight, too sexy, and the sounds and provocations of Lisa, and since then I never played it in front of anyone, although he (the kid) told me let's play that fighting game, I always gave him the "maybe later but not now" answer, sad but true eh.

So, here's what I've been thinking about, let's go over some of the other fighters' rosters and see the ratios (in no particular order, and please correct me if I'm wrong or add more games):

Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown: (1 : 2.33)

TEKKEN 7: (1 : 2.54)

Street Fighter 5: (1 : 1.9)

Marvel vs Capcom Infinite: (1 : 4.14)

Injustice 2: (1 : 3.22)

Super Smash Bros 4: (1 : 3.8)

The King of Fighters 14: (1 : 1.57)

Soul Calibur 5: (1 : 2.11)

Mortal Kombat XL: (1 : 2)

Dead or Alive 5 Last Round: (1.4 : 1)

And that makes DOA the only game with more females than males, yes they are used to seeing more d1cks than b00bs, yet the irony is that DOA is the nearest to the actual female to male ratio (which hovers between (1 : 1.2) and (1.2 : 1) but anyways the conclusion is TEAM NINJA make the next game have as near to 1:1 ratio and keep the sex appeal, then I will be the first to cast down anyone who says DOA is a sexist game, furthermore I well be a DOA advocate in my region.

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P.S. Or better yet TEAM NINJA and AM2 merge DOA with VF and you will have (1 : 1.15) in which nobody sees that coming especially since you both made 2 major updates for your fifth installment and named the latest Final/Last something, and kept supporting VF characters costumes DLC in the last season, oops said too much.

P.P.S.(off-topic) Will be adding new combos to Hayate/Eliot/Sarah maybe Ayane/Rig/Phase4/others when I get the chance.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

The problem is it won't work, Team NINJA already tried this with the original release of DOA5 marketing. DOA5 vanilla trailers was all about the "I'm a Fighter" tagline and showing that DOA was a serious competitive fighting game now the VF guests were to help that sentiment.

This didn't go down well and they received complaints from casual fans that like DOA for the sex appeal hence they added Bikini dlc to DOA5 vanilla and ultra hard unlockable bikinis and with DOA5U and onwards TN decided it was more profitable to focus on female skimpy dlc and fetish outifits and guess what? they were right that stuff sold like hotcakes.

That's why DOA5 has 20 females(including guests Sarah, Paid, Mai and Naotora) and 16 males.(Including guests Akira and Jacky)

However, KoeiTecmo Europe and KT America are exclusively marketing DOA as a fighting game which is why Western regions don't get games like DOAX3 or DOAX Venus Vacation. But, that doesn't stop people coming across the several fetish/bikini dlcs on PSN/Xbox Live/Steam or DOAX stuff on the internet.

 

[Lulu]

Well.... atleast you have Family that likes the game...

How the rest of the world perceives it is an entirely different can of beans...

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

I don't think it's the gender that determines what makes a fighting game a fighting game, it's more on the fighting itself in my opinion. I think Dead or Alive is a genuine fighting game, it's just not exhibited with the fighting, but more on the sex appeal/fanservice which is why many people from other fighting game communities can't take Dead or Alive seriously as a fighting game because of the fanservice.

As someone who came from Namco's 3D fighting games (Tekken and Soul Calibur), I never played Dead or Alive until last year because the game has no presence in where I came from. Nobody from the offline scene plays it or don't show it during gaming events and it's not at the arcades either. I usually get to know fighting games at the arcades because I've been an arcade player before I got a console during 2010. I've known Dead or Alive since 2012, but I just couldn't encourage myself to play it because I thought people might just judge me that I'm only playing the game for the fanservice instead of the fighting itself.

 

[YEH]

The problem is it won't work, Team NINJA already tried...
...
However, KoeiTecmo Europe and KT America are exclusively marketing DOA as a fighting game which is why Western regions don't get games like DOAX3 or DOAX Venus Vacation. But, that doesn't stop people coming across the several fetish/bikini dlcs on PSN/Xbox Live/Steam or DOAX stuff on the internet.

And that's what bothers me the most, they already have a spin-off about as sexy as you can get on consoles (namely DOAX), so why not tone down the fighter, and I'm not suggesting they stop the fanservice, I can totally see it failing to attract core fans of the series, that's why my only suggestion is change the ratio only.

Well.... atleast you have Family that likes the game...

How the rest of the world perceives it is an entirely different can of beans...

It's not about that, it's more like, I really think this game isn't reaching the true potential it can be only because of how people are used to seeing more d1cks than b00bs in any fighting game.

I don't think it's the gender that determines what makes a fighting game a fighting game, it's more on the fighting itself in my opinion. I think Dead or Alive is a genuine fighting game...
...
but I just couldn't encourage myself to play it because I thought people might just judge me that I'm only playing the game for the fanservice instead of the fighting itself.

Yes it is genuine in my eyes too, but how could we get that across to those who only judge a book by its cover, if all else fails, the next installment will be another Adults Only gaming session choice.

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

Yes it is genuine in my eyes too, but how could we get that across to those who only judge a book by its cover, if all else fails, the next installment will be another Adults Only gaming session choice.

Yeah, I got your point. The only solution is for the people behind it would exhibit the game more with the fighting and less of the fanservice, and also take out the fanservice stuff from the game as well such as the excessive breast physics and 80% nude outfits. I'm not really down for the change of male and female ratio to be honest because I kinda like the roster the way it is. The audience would only describe things only on paper and it's kinda shallow, which is why Dead or Alive is one of the most stereotyped fighting games out there.

If people only like Dead or Alive for the sex appeal, they should just stay in DOAX. There are times I hate that game exists because it nearly tarnishes the series's image as a fighting game, and the things that came from there should stay there too, especially the excessive breast physics that apparently came from DOAX2 that made its way into Dead or Alive 5.

 

[YEH]

Yeah, I got your point. The only solution is for the people behind it would exhibit the game more with the fighting and less of the fanservice, and also take out the fanservice stuff from the game as well such as the excessive breast physics and 80% nude outfits. I'm not really down for the change of male and female ratio to be honest because I kinda like the roster the way it is...
...

That's what you call the Deadlock situation of Dead or Alive, and if you they do it will be the Virtually Dead fighting game (puns intended), fanservice of DOA and generally speaking any Japanese non kids-only game is a given, there's no way it changes, it's in the veins of the their gaming culture.

only "Deception" will work in this situation, a white lie if I may say.

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

That's what you call the Deadlock situation of Dead or Alive, and if you they do it will be the Virtually Dead fighting game (puns intended), fanservice of DOA and generally speaking any Japanese non kids-only game is a given, there's no way it changes, it's in the veins of the their gaming culture.

only "Deception" will work in this situation, a white lie if I may say.

Yeah, it's an imaginary dilemma I often have with the series. It kinda makes me sad. As much as I like Dead or Alive as a fighting game, there are a lot of things in it that I dislike so much that I just wish they're taken out, but also at the same time, the things I dislike about the game is also what makes the game sell.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

Tbf, a lot of the gravure and softcore stuff was added before DOAX3 even existed. Though, that still doesn't excuse 12 bikini DLCs.

Also,

the excessive breast physics that apparently came from DOAX2 that made its way into Dead or Alive 5.

This is not true, the ultra bouncy boob physics has been a thing since DOA1.

Removing fan service/Adding more males to even out the roster won't really solve anything, because, DOA Xtreme, bikini dlc, nude mods, fanmade lewd renders and SFM porn will still exist. And THAT is what will come up first waaay before the fighting game.

Actually the way DOA is going you should be happy if the next DOA isn't a fully all girl waifu fighter like SNK's SNK Heroines. Not even Hayabusa is enough to sell males anymore doesn't help Ninja Gaiden hasn't been seen since 2013(Yaiba doesn't exist).

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

Tbf, a lot of the gravure and softcore stuff was added before DOAX3 even existed. Though, that still doesn't excuse 12 bikini DLCs.

Also,

This is not true, the ultra bouncy boob physics has been a thing since DOA1.

I meant the one that moves on its own that looks like a water balloon than a breast. It moves independently even without the character moving.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

I meant the one that moves on its own that looks like a water balloon than a breast. It moves independently even without the character moving.

So am I, look at DOA1s boob physics.

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

So am I, look at DOA1s boob physics.

Did DOA2/Ultimate and DOA3 have those too?

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

Did DOA2/Ultimate and DOA3 have those too?

garbage quality but you can still see my point.

And I'm not sure, there was always the rumour of more bounce if you set your age to 99 in DOA2/U idk about DOA3 3 was more tame in general(next to no costumes and no sex appeal outside of Christies ending).

 

[Shirataki Tsume]

garbage quality but you can still see my point.

And I'm not sure, there was always the rumour of more bounce if you set your age to 99 in DOA2/U idk about DOA3 3 was more tame in general(next to no costumes and no sex appeal outside of Christies ending).

Ah... I couldn't imagine the possibility of physics technology for a game that age. I could've wished DOA5 stayed as tame as DOA3 and DOA2U (kind of). I thought it was a new feature in DOAX2 because I've never seen it in the first DOAX, DOA2U and DOA3.

 

[YEH]

Look I just found a media that talks about this and added to MEDIA section, it's fairly new but didn't see it before posting this thread.

YouTube

2 0 868

7:40

The public execution of good fighting games | EFG Extra 01

DOA at 4:52

So am I, look at DOA1s boob physics.

Seen old DOA and even the secret nude, but that's a legacy, they should move on, and to be honest look at how every other fighting game has at least one super sexy character, hope TN gets the hint, that's all.

 

[Brute]

Honestly, I don't care what the gender distribution looks like, provided that whatever characters are there are good. Before all the shitty DLC characters, I think DOA5 vanilla had like one more female than male character, but almost everyone was a well designed, justifiable inclusion, so I never really thought about it in terms of male-to-female ratio. Then we got a bunch of superfluous female characters with half-assed movesets and visual designs because Koei realized they could sell female DLC characters easily (regardless how much effort or care was put into their design), and the result is that at least 1/3 of the current roster is putrid garbage.

Anyway, while the statistics are interesting, I don't think simply making the roster equally divided between male and female characters would do anything to alter people's perception of the game. People don't think about things rationally in that way, and if the knee-jerk reaction of a prude is that shirtless Jann Lee/Leon are fine while C1 Lisa is offensive, no amount of logic will convince them otherwise.

 

[Rikuto]

When DOA 5 sales did not perform as they wanted, Team Ninja had a choice. They could re-evaluate what they did wrong and fix it, or they could potentially alienate the wider market and double down on sex appeal which they knew would sell to the more limited eastern market.

They are, at the end of the day, Japanese and they understand their own regions market better than the international one. To be entirely honest, the sexy stuff never fazed me that much but I take exception to the really dumb anime tropes that were inserted in the form of Marie Rose and Honoka. My fear is that ultimately because those two have proven popular to the eastern crowd it seems likely the future of DOA will focus on that kind of character content.

 

[Brute]

I take exception to the really dumb anime tropes that were inserted in the form of Marie Rose and Honoka.

But you don't take exception to all the other really dumb anime tropes?

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

I don't think the character gender ratio really matters, but fun fact, DOA5 is actually the only title in the series to have more female characters than male characters.

 

[Rikuto]

But you don't take exception to all the other really dumb anime tropes?

The other anime tropes don't involve under age school girl slice of life crap, so no. I don't.