Helena's needed improvements

[DR2K]

I play bass , er... generally the option is low punch ,Mid Kick , or grab if you back dash bass can't really hit you and some characters have options out of back dash, also once you're in the wall a lot of bass' options get dropped. As for helena once you're at the wall she has tracking low , mid, high , jump kicks , and grab? I know the mamba Helena I set the AI to a mix up at random I eat my thanksgiving dinner..( happy thanksgiving guys) when i come back I couldn't "block" everything and once the stun gets in and you guess wrong you're going down again fine Helena has to do it more times but that's only because she has more options than bass to force you back into it, also she's faster than bass. I have been able to grab Helena out of BKO but only offline and only with grapplers that have a low offensive hold so far , i.e Bayman.

Bass has the ability to do whatever he wants at +11 and he has all the options that Helena does on top of his OHs. He also does a shit ton more damage.

Helena does it more because she lacks damage. If she could hit half life combos and CB out of one stun then she'd be gravy. I think it's a fair tradeoff. Lowest damage characters are pressure monsters in the game. Christie, Pai, Helena, etc. . . Helena gets her pressure game going on the knockdown and only has guesses from there.

 

[KidArk]

Bass has the ability to do whatever he wants at +11 and he has all the options that Helena does on top of his OHs. He also does a shit ton more damage.

Helena does it more because she lacks damage. If she could hit half life combos and CB out of one stun then she'd be gravy. I think it's a fair tradeoff. Lowest damage characters are pressure monsters in the game. Christie, Pai, Helena, etc. . . Helena gets her pressure game going on the knockdown and only has guesses from there.

I don't have a problem with Helena having force techs at all it's just the mix ups makes it really hard to get out of the force tech , I mean yes you might not get to wake-up when fighting bass but At least you can apply appropriate pressure to bass where he's weakest and jab him out at a lot of his strings, Helena is evasive as hell and on top of that she has this force tech set up when in the right hands will be guaranteed damage. I don't require removal , i have beaten this Helena before but once the tech gets started... MCV3 much? SS is the answer to a lot of her options in the force tech however that tracking low that stuns starts getting annoying also they can just 216H+P puts you into back turn , launch you then back into pseudo and since grabs track. Bass theoretically has all the options but all of them aren't smart and if you back dash after the pick up a lot of them get wiffed , because the pseudo force tech for helena makes you tech roll instead of just getting up you lose out on a lot of options even after she wiffs the 6P in BKO.

 

[DR2K]

Helena has 0 guaranteed damage/options if you tech. Regardless of 6p whiff.

 

[KidArk]

Helena has 0 guaranteed damage/options if you tech. Regardless of 6p whiff.

I said basically guaranteed , off the fact that the mix ups lower the probability of guessing to about 1/3 ~ 1/4 .75,66 pecent i'd say guaranteed.

 

[DR2K]

I said basically guaranteed , off the fact that the mix ups lower the probability of guessing to about 1/3 ~ 1/4 .75,66 pecent i'd say guaranteed.

Umm. . . not sure how you got those numbers. She's either going to stun or throw you all of which can be held or blocked.

 

[KidArk]

Umm. . . not sure how you got those numbers. She's either going to stun or throw you all of which can be held or blocked.

Well those numbers are referring to possibilities of you try to hold as when you hold it's either high , mid , or low which would bring you to a 1/3 chance yeah? Then she can also grab which makes it a 1/4 guess as you'd have to have see the grab or else take high counter damage . Yes it may not be guaranteed but the face that it isn't allows for more damage through stun and pressure , Gen Fu and Jan Lee's guaranteed damage is nothing compared to the damage she gets through something that isn't guaranteed but as you can see from her fights are pretty much guaranteed. Is there some giant underlying fly to the entire pseudo force tech system that I'm just not seeing which lowers it from a 1/3 ~ 1/4 guessing game to a 50/50? Saying she's either going to throw or stun makes light of the game as which type of stun varies so instead of just "stunning" per se she's going to hit in a certain vector , as I said high, low, mid. Really im not trying to argue or anything so sorry if i seem to by i'm only trying to get my point across that a nerf on something like her SS K -cough-

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Well those numbers are referring to possibilities of you try to hold as when you hold it's either high , mid , or low which would bring you to a 1/3 chance yeah? Then she can also grab which makes it a 1/4 guess as you'd have to have see the grab or else take high counter damage . Yes it may not be guaranteed but the face that it isn't allows for more damage through stun and pressure , Gen Fu and Jan Lee's guaranteed damage is nothing compared to the damage she gets through something that isn't guaranteed but as you can see from her fights are pretty much guaranteed. Is there some giant underlying fly to the entire pseudo force tech system that I'm just not seeing which lowers it from a 1/3 ~ 1/4 guessing game to a 50/50? Saying she's either going to throw or stun makes light of the game as which type of stun varies so instead of just "stunning" per se she's going to hit in a certain vector , as I said high, low, mid. Really im not trying to argue or anything so sorry if i seem to by i'm only trying to get my point across that a nerf on something like her SS K -cough-

Since mids and highs block the same wouldnt it be 1/3 guessing game if they just block. So its low, grab or high/mids if they block. Ive also seen people side step my first attack since Helena is pretty slow they can interrupt her easily.

 

[KidArk]

I'd like to retract all the statements I said before, they were far to premature after a good play offline I've seen that her moves aren't as harmful as myself and many others have put them out to be , I'm sorry if I was being difficult to anyone . Ummmm I've been playing too much doa 3 and not ennough doa 5 a simple side step changes up what helena does a lot as after I ss I can do a lot of damage with my main.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I'd like to retract all the statements I said before, they were far to premature after a good play offline I've seen that her moves aren't as harmful as myself and many others have put them out to be , I'm sorry if I was being difficult to anyone . Ummmm I've been playing too much doa 3 and not ennough doa 5 a simple side step changes up what helena does a lot as after I ss I can do a lot of damage with my main.

Yeah side stepping is pretty good against her. Its a good punishment for her 2H+K, that low stunning kick.

 

[TRI Mike]

She's better than we originally thought but I still don't see her as the godlike bitch everyone is claiming her to be. Mamba himself already said Christie (and others) get better options from forced tech. Helena is still the worst character in the game to me, just a little better than we thought.

 

[HiguraShiki]

She's better than we originally thought but I still don't see her as the godlike bitch everyone is claiming her to be. Mamba himself already said Christie (and others) get better options from forced tech. Helena is still the worst character in the game to me, just a little better than we thought.

Nah, leave that spot to Zack and Alpha.

 

[TRI Mike]

Alpha can do 50% HP damage combos from almost anything. Offensively she's extremely good, but the lack of wake-up kicks and actual holds kills the poor girl. I dunno much about Zack but I doubt he's worse than Helena.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Alpha can do 50% HP damage combos from almost anything. Offensively she's extremely good, but the lack of wake-up kicks and actual holds kills the poor girl. I dunno much about Zack but I doubt he's worse than Helena.

Alpha's saving grace is her damage, true. But as for Zack, just give up all hope. The only good moves he has are his taunts.

 

[Moritsuna]

I was wondering if they ever buffed Helena? Was reading the tier list discussion and someone said the developer would be buffing her on twitch stream.

(And is she really that bad? I have Mila as a backup lol)

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I was wondering if they ever buffed Helena? Was reading the tier list discussion and someone said the developer would be buffing her on twitch stream.

(And is she really that bad? I have Mila as a backup lol)

She is a slow, unsafe and low damaging character who can eliminate wake up kicks similar to Tina, Bass and Bayman. Without the ability to eliminate wake up kicks she would be very weak but having this ability she is a pretty strong character.

So she is a good character but only if you can guess correctly when they tech at the end of your combo's. If you can't do that then she is one of the worst characters in the game. Sadly her character design is to be pretty bad at almost everything and have one extremely good tool to compensate.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

She is a slow, unsafe and low damaging character who can eliminate wake up kicks similar to Tina, Bass and Bayman. Without the ability to eliminate wake up kicks she would be very weak but having this ability she is a pretty strong character.

So she is a good character but only if you can guess correctly when they tech at the end of your combo's. If you can't do that then she is one of the worst characters in the game. Sadly her character design is to be pretty bad at almost everything and have one extremely good tool to compensate.

Yeah this is what i always say to people. Characters like Jan lee, i feel is easier to be good at, but playing Helena, most have to be pretty good at her to utilize her.

 

[Moritsuna]

I'm a new player but I might play Helena because I just like her style. Can you tell me how to use her one good tool? (eliminating wake up kicks?) And is there a character better but similar in playstyle? (I mean having lots of mixups) I'm guessing leifang

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I'm a new player but I might play Helena because I just like her style. Can you tell me how to use her one good tool? (eliminating wake up kicks?) And is there a character better but similar in playstyle? (I mean having lots of mixups) I'm guessing leifang

There isn't another character similar to Helena, she is pretty unique. At a push I would say try Brad Wong.

As for using her one good tool when you are juggling an airborne opponent use any of her 3in1 attacks (I'd recommend 33P4P) and do 6P immediately when they hit the floor. If they tech up it will miss you will be at frame advantage and if they don't tech up it will force them up and again you will be at frame advantage. Either way they will not be able to use a wake up kick.

This trick will enable you to keep you on the attack without worrying about being hit with a wake up kick. The down side is all of your combo's will be pretty much the same and will have very little diversity.

 

[TRI Mike]

Diversity isn't the problem, it's that you seem to need a lot of luck to win with Helena. I appreciate what E-mann and Mamba did and I recognize them as excellent players but I just refuse to admit that now Helena is a top tier character. She's still the worst. When she "force techs" in open space, she has to dash to keep the pressure AND pray for the opponent to make a mistake, so there's no real frame advantage since forcing Helena to dash to get close takes that away, the only advantage is not having to deal with the wake-up kick. In walls, the forced tech thing is nice but it still requires heavy guessing which simply should not happen.

Besides, when playing in that retarded 300-health setting, she needs to launch and juggle too many times to win. Her combos per-se are extremely weak in damage and if you use her 3-in-1s to land the "forced tech" she'll deal even less damage so you seriously need to do it a LOT in a single round to win.

This forced tech thing made her better than in launch, but not even close to being good.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Does anyone ever CB with Helena? For some reason, I never see anyone even attempt a CB.