Raansu
Well-Known Member
Your counter argument involved nothing within the characters mechanics itself.
Lets be serious here Alpha-152 needs to be banned.
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Your counter argument involved nothing within the characters mechanics itself.
Vincent Rayne
Active Member
then pls tell me what is your idea of the character's mechanics are. give me an example that way we can get on the same page.
hollow
Well-Known Member
But that's ALL you're argument is the mechanics of DOA5 alpha not DOA5U alpha so I'm not understanding your issue here? But anyway all I have to say is this one last time, don't bitch about a character on a game that hasn't been released yet, come back when you have facts from DOA5U thanks, bye.
Really? I always thought WHY!? is just some well-known player with free reins on an alternate account looking for kicks...
Either way, Aiyiyiyiyi is all I gotta say about this topic. We're a week into DOA5U as it is, the dedicated Alpha players will have plenty of time to get on their grind within probably a month to prove her legitimacy. A month. That's all. It's a Skyrim playthrough. It's not the end yet Alpha players, you still got a second chance! Study the frame data, prove your points well when another topic regarding Alpha's legitimacy rolls around, and don't blow it! Y'all need this opportunity.
lopedo
Well-Known Member
I would suggest that a damage nerf on all fronts is necessary. I'm not talking nerf 50% of her damage, but she's the fastest character in the game, she doesn't need half life damage off of juggles.
Her throws, namely the one that takes half health, needs to be slowed down with evasive properties removed. Tone down the damage by 5-10%. The catch throw needs to be reworked to follow the basic rules of the game. As it is, it catches people damn near out of the air.
Even if her moves didn't all re-track, she'd still be too fast for the side stepping system. I'm not sure how to work around that, maybe somebody else can shed some light. Damn near infinite, unstoppable strings need to go.
Stuns, guard breaks.... again, STAHP. Give her something, or hell, let her keep something... but not as much as she has now.
Her throws, namely the one that takes half health, needs to be slowed down with evasive properties removed. Tone down the damage by 5-10%. The catch throw needs to be reworked to follow the basic rules of the game. As it is, it catches people damn near out of the air.
Even if her moves didn't all re-track, she'd still be too fast for the side stepping system. I'm not sure how to work around that, maybe somebody else can shed some light. Damn near infinite, unstoppable strings need to go.
Stuns, guard breaks.... again, STAHP. Give her something, or hell, let her keep something... but not as much as she has now.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Her advantage is raw speed. She doesn't need the damage output of a grappler as well. I don't mind if they made her OH faster to make up for the damage loss, but right now those OH's should not be pumping out the kind of damage they do on HCT...Hell even on NT.
It's a little overboard that a fast character can already do insane damage, its to the extreme when she can threaten you with that kind of damage from juggles and throws. She either has one or the other, she doesn't need the best of both worlds. A striker character in general shouldn't have the threat of throw damage equal to that of a full blown juggle. I'd expect a that kind of throw damage on Bass and I'd hope he does have throws that hurt that badly. But Alpha? No, just no.
Same with her low throw. Either slow it down or lower the damage. Why does a striking character have a 3i low throw that can do 105 dmg on HCT?
It's a little overboard that a fast character can already do insane damage, its to the extreme when she can threaten you with that kind of damage from juggles and throws. She either has one or the other, she doesn't need the best of both worlds. A striker character in general shouldn't have the threat of throw damage equal to that of a full blown juggle. I'd expect a that kind of throw damage on Bass and I'd hope he does have throws that hurt that badly. But Alpha? No, just no.
Same with her low throw. Either slow it down or lower the damage. Why does a striking character have a 3i low throw that can do 105 dmg on HCT?
I am going to say this again. This poll should be closed, and then a new one should be opened a week after DOA5U comes out. It seriously makes no sense to ban a character in a game that we have spent little time playing. I think she should have been banned in 5, but I am uncertain about 5U, because most of us haven't even played the game yet.
stinkymonz
New Member
No please. She's clearly designed to have all those offensive advantages at the expense of crippling defense/difficulty of use. Part of the problem on the difficulty of use point is that the game's sort of based on being easy to pick up/play, but if the developers really want to keep a character like Alpha they should make her legitimately difficult to control on a fundamental level. I'd rather they make her tools harder to apply or give her bolder shortcomings, while keeping all or most of her current close-range advantages.
I'd suggest:
I'd suggest:
- redesign the inputs for her strings, maybe make every kick a 236/214 motion, experiment with more complicated motions as a whole, so the player needs to commit and be extremely engaged. perhaps adding directional inputs to every single kick/punch in her strings or having all the inputs for her kicks/punch strings all end towards to the back motions, so it'll be difficult to keep an opponent stunned while buffering a 236236T
- take away her dash/run. that way, she's going to have work very hard to get into the range where she's incredibly effective. she'll have to read an opponent's mistake in zoning her out to get in. In tandem, with this perhaps her regular hold should teleport her further away than now so she'd still have to make a guess if she hopes to get in using a hold. (in tandem with this, it might be worth considering having her start farther away than the rest of the cast, or perhaps even starting in FLT? current round start, she could just walk in before the match actually begins and makes this point fairly moot.)
- barring that, give her some sort of resource to manage. maybe she has to transforms into a mode that depletes gauge, or she can't be on the offensive too long without a great penalty. Think A.B.A Moroha gauge/Aigis Orgia mode gauge/Izayoi or Hakumen stars. YES OK DIRECTLY LIFTING THIS IDEA FROM AN ARC SYSTEM GAME but literally all those characters are breaking the rules so to speak, like Alpha and they do it at greater resource cost to other characters in the cast.
Me personally don't give a shit about this discussion anymore. No matter how nice you try to be people can't have a mature discussion. People have to get butt hurt from non sense instead of having a proper debate. If TN didn't listen to this community bullshit I can see why. If you was to show them this topic they probably wouldn't waste there time reading through this sillyness.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
All of you that keep coming in here saying people are making claims need to shut up. You keep talking as if nobody has fought this character before and is talking based on what they see on paper. That said I believe people want video evidence? I'll provide some videos and give my input on them; I would appreciate it if others did as well.
IMO Shade's fear of B.U.R.S.T is pretty apparent here. Xcalibur would have had a much easier time if he had opted for more launchers and CB's than throw setups. Even then he whiffs the throw and goes right back into pressure? Can someone tell me if that is legitimate or if it was just Shade freezing up? In the second half of the vid we can see Hayate get clipped for doing his SPECIAL ( most evasive ) sidestep. Also one thing I'd like to note here is that Xcal isn't being completely abusive with Alpha. He does a 2P (neutral on hit) then follows up with a 13 frame mid. If her goal is to score counter hits PK ( 2 in 1 on counter hit ) and 7K are more abusive. PK leads into her string manipulation game and 7K is 62 damage on counter hit, safe on guard and crushes 12 frame mids and lows. 13 frame mid is a nice option but there are better go to options than that. We don't see it in this vid though.
I thought Alpha was supposed to be free at the wall? She gets there multiple times in this vid. We see one of Alpha's flaws in this vid; A lack of a 7 frame punish throw. So Xcalibur gets his 5 frame throw broken. We see wall rape in round 2 but Alpha is able to reverse the situation; losing the match due to a mistake on Xcalibur's part. Correct me If I am wrong but isn't her 4K safe due to pushback? Alpha mirror at the end.
For the sake of unbias discussion I will post vids of players handling Alpha:
In this set Kwiggle had Xcalibur's Alpha downloaded in my honest opinion. Xcalibur was committing to his strings and trying to force stuns off of them instead of free cancelling and using string manipulation. I won't deny Kwiggle made some great reads when he was stunned though and did an exceptional job defending himself. We once again see how "free" Alpha is at the wall in this vid as she puts Christie in a shitty situation two or three times post parry.
http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/447919272
This is another set between Shade and Xcalibur blades. It starts 3:09:00. Not much to say here other than Alpha got bodied. Would have been nice if Xcalibur tried to grab more. Oh and Alpha is put into a wall situation yet again where she reverses the situation. I would think that this occurrence would be less common hearing how the Alpha players insist she is free at the wall. She's certainly in a bad situation but free? Come on now.
Like I said before I support a temporary and not permanent ban. She's not WHOAMG super ultra powerful but she's a notch above a bunch of other characters and has an easier time for reasons already stated and have yet to be disputed by opposers other than "Whoa you guys are just salty you lost to Xcalibur." "Whoa you guys just want to increase your chances at getting the pot." "Whoa you guys are using theory craft." I would like to request that the opposers come at us with FACTS and clear ANTI-STRATS other than "Make good reads lolol." Thank you.
IMO Shade's fear of B.U.R.S.T is pretty apparent here. Xcalibur would have had a much easier time if he had opted for more launchers and CB's than throw setups. Even then he whiffs the throw and goes right back into pressure? Can someone tell me if that is legitimate or if it was just Shade freezing up? In the second half of the vid we can see Hayate get clipped for doing his SPECIAL ( most evasive ) sidestep. Also one thing I'd like to note here is that Xcal isn't being completely abusive with Alpha. He does a 2P (neutral on hit) then follows up with a 13 frame mid. If her goal is to score counter hits PK ( 2 in 1 on counter hit ) and 7K are more abusive. PK leads into her string manipulation game and 7K is 62 damage on counter hit, safe on guard and crushes 12 frame mids and lows. 13 frame mid is a nice option but there are better go to options than that. We don't see it in this vid though.
I thought Alpha was supposed to be free at the wall? She gets there multiple times in this vid. We see one of Alpha's flaws in this vid; A lack of a 7 frame punish throw. So Xcalibur gets his 5 frame throw broken. We see wall rape in round 2 but Alpha is able to reverse the situation; losing the match due to a mistake on Xcalibur's part. Correct me If I am wrong but isn't her 4K safe due to pushback? Alpha mirror at the end.
For the sake of unbias discussion I will post vids of players handling Alpha:
In this set Kwiggle had Xcalibur's Alpha downloaded in my honest opinion. Xcalibur was committing to his strings and trying to force stuns off of them instead of free cancelling and using string manipulation. I won't deny Kwiggle made some great reads when he was stunned though and did an exceptional job defending himself. We once again see how "free" Alpha is at the wall in this vid as she puts Christie in a shitty situation two or three times post parry.
http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/447919272
This is another set between Shade and Xcalibur blades. It starts 3:09:00. Not much to say here other than Alpha got bodied. Would have been nice if Xcalibur tried to grab more. Oh and Alpha is put into a wall situation yet again where she reverses the situation. I would think that this occurrence would be less common hearing how the Alpha players insist she is free at the wall. She's certainly in a bad situation but free? Come on now.
Like I said before I support a temporary and not permanent ban. She's not WHOAMG super ultra powerful but she's a notch above a bunch of other characters and has an easier time for reasons already stated and have yet to be disputed by opposers other than "Whoa you guys are just salty you lost to Xcalibur." "Whoa you guys just want to increase your chances at getting the pot." "Whoa you guys are using theory craft." I would like to request that the opposers come at us with FACTS and clear ANTI-STRATS other than "Make good reads lolol." Thank you.
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KidArk
Active Member
I'm sorry I was sleepy and in my head unsafe was somehow synonymous with .. guaranteed damage, i respectfully retract that statement. Though there are a certain someone with unsafe GBs .. he whose name won't be mentioned !
Grunt Dude
New Member
Take away her ability to block! Sorted, lol. Jokes aside, me and Cow had 1.02 Alpha banned during early tournaments here in the UK. We messed about with her a lot and saw the advantages she had over everyone else that made it too easy for her to win (2kkk glitch included). "Ultimate Alpha" looks too good at first glance but time will tell.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Honestly if this was 1.02 Alpha I don't think discussion would be necessary. You would have to be extremely delusional to think a character with a 12 frame +2 on guard flip kick that has high damage on counter hit and crushes 12 frame lows and mids on top of all the other things stated in this thread is fair game in a tournament.
KidArk
Active Member
Yawn , How many times do i have to bring up the ice climbers ? They weren't top tier before they got their infinite , they weren't top tier when they were banned, but they were banned. They weren't over powered at all not compared to fox/ falco, they had bad match ups, but ONE SINGLE THING banned them from almost all melee tournaments. Alpha does not just have one tool that makes her better but a plethora of tools that are at her disposal and we only want her banned temporarily not for 5+ years.
If this is nothing to do with the game that only lives if it's competitive what does it have to do with the Alpha players who spent months while other people spent years with their characters. Does it have to do with them? If the possibility of Alpha mucking up the competetive scene has nothing to do with this game , I literally have no idea why we're having this conversation.
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